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09-10-2012, 11:52 PM   #31
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In short: The K3 is called Nikon D600 and will be presented within the next two days.

Nikon has filled the Pentax niche wihtin the last two years and will continue to do so. Pentax cameras once were well known for their small footprint with high-end features. This year Pentax presents an improved version of the K5 showing that there was not so much high-tech in the camera. Before upgrading my K5 I would wait at least 6 month to read reports by other users. I learned my lessen with the K5, the whole focusing system is so bad that I will not trust Pentax anymore. The FF dream of many Pentax users is not coming true in the near future, so a D600 with K5 footprint is as close as you can get. The recent oberhaul of Nikon fixed focal length glass surpasses current Pentax glass in numbers and at least equialy equals quality. A K5 with DA55 has no significant advantge over a D600 with a 1.8/85. The advantage of the Nikon gear would be the availability of a 1.8/28 or a 1.4/35 (among many other lenses) - Pentax has nothing to offer in this league considering that you need to divide by the APS-C factor. I like my FA31, but it is overdesigned for an APS-C camera and a wide angle lens on a K5.

A better K5 requires new glass. A large aperture 24mm lens is needed to go along with the DA55. I can think of many other lenses that need an update, but a large aperture wide angle is No1 by far.
Lack of such lens basically indicates that Pentax is either ignorant or (more likely) has FF plans restricing the presentation of large aperture glass for APS-C cameras. I would expect a Pentax FF announcement by the end of photokina or early before christmas, disregarding when the new Sony sensor can be put in a Pentax camera.

The K5II could stick around for longer as the APS-C flagship with a FF camera announced fairly soon. This would make most sense ...


Last edited by zapp; 09-10-2012 at 11:57 PM.
09-10-2012, 11:52 PM   #32
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If the K-3 (or what ever successor) would have been ready for the market, they wouldn't had to pull out a K5II.
I can well imaging a meeting at Pentax HQ in July:

Boss: MITUMI, will that f***ing K-3 be weady for photokina?
Engineer Mitumi: Sowy Boss, K-3 no weady....
Boss: Okay, than lets put some minor upgwades into the K-5 and welabel it!
Enegeneer Mitumi: Ok Boss.

Or they just decided to keep the K-5 anyway in their line-up, even if there will be a new flagship coming soon.
09-10-2012, 11:58 PM   #33
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However negative I might sound with this release, I'm still positive about the performance of Pentax's products. Having only a K-x, the only logical step is to get a K-5 II or IIs. Unless a K-3 appears all of a sudden, lol.

QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Sony/Nikon are really scared of what Pentax can do with sensors they decided not to release it even after more than a year...
If this is true, then Ricoh should also consider buying a sensor company... and beat their once-great-partner Sony. =))
09-11-2012, 12:03 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mace Quote
If the K-3 (or what ever successor) would have been ready for the market, they wouldn't had to pull out a K5II.
I can well imaging a meeting at Pentax HQ in July:

Boss: MITUMI, will that F***ing K-3 be weady for photokina?
Engineer Mitumi: Sowy Boss, K-3 no weady....
Boss: Okay, than lets K-5 put some minor upgwades into the K-5 and welabel it!
Enegeneer Mitumi: Ok Boss.

Or they just decided to keep the K-5 anyway in their line-up, even if there will be a new flagship coming soon.
Haha, thanks for the laugh Elmer!

Here's a thought, maybe there is something to the new naming trend. Canon has 7D, 5D Mk 1 2 3, 1D Mk whoknows. I could see Pentax doing a K-5 Mk 1 2, K-3, K-1. They could stick with these names and just upgrade the "mark" for the next decade. Of course if we follow the Canon trend, the K-3 would be the full-frame for most, and the K-1 would be an even higher end FF (or some odd APS-H, not!). Pentax could also say K-3 is the APS-C pro model, and only the K-1 is FF. I'm going to guess the former for one main reason - K-5 IIs; if the K-5 is not the APS-C flagship (which we already know it is from the press release), I don't think they'd go through the effort of making an "s" version.

Bring on the FF K-3! My 2c.

Edit: Going back to the funny mockery I quoted. We may not have all the facts. There was a fairly credible (or at least technical) rumor a while back that talked about Pentax re-working some of the electrical components of the sensor, such that an AA filterless version would be more useful. The rumor said they essentially moved more of the photon-blocking infrastructure components out of the way - this may mean better ISO performance / DR as well.

Edit 2: Found the link: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/196401-k-5-successor-updates.html


Last edited by jeffshaddix; 09-11-2012 at 12:14 AM.
09-11-2012, 12:06 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
What “happened“ to it? It will be released early next year, like the rumours said.
Pentax is a small company and can't do everything at once. Full frame will also come in due time.
For now, AF at -3EV... are you guys listening!?
Is -3EV as the sole improvement on a two year old camera enough to get people to buy it over the competition? With only 11 AF points (still)? I don't think so. This isn't a camera to grow Pentax market share it's a camera to get K-r/K-7 owners to upgrade.

It doesn't matter how good the underlying camera is Pentax had such a bad reputation for AF (outside of brand owners) that I think the best case scenario is that people will believe that the AF is now up to the competition but still has not exceeded it. See 11 AF points as well.

None of this matters if the K-5 II isn't the flagship but Pentax has declared it thus. If Pentax had announced the K-3 first and then the K-5II the weakness of K-5 II has a top end model would be irrelevant.
09-11-2012, 12:13 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
What “happened“ to it? It will be released early next year, like the rumours said.
Pentax is a small company and can't do everything at once. Full frame will also come in due time.
For now, AF at -3EV... are you guys listening!?
I agree:
a. APS class leading DR sensor
b. New lens coating that outclasses SMC
c. no AA filter
d. -3ev AF

so its IQ, IQ, IQ


If its really -3ev, i'll prefer that, if i have to choose, over focus peaking.

I think Pentax is working on FF and has limited manpower as LamyTax suggested. AF has been the leading complaint for too long, i'm glad they worked on it, can't wait to see the results.

Last edited by philbaum; 09-11-2012 at 12:23 AM.
09-11-2012, 12:19 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I agree:
a. APS class leading DR sensor
b. New lens coating that outclasses SMC
c. no AA filter
d. -3ev AF


If its really -3ev, i'll prefer that any day rather than focus peaking.

I think Pentax is working on FF and has limited manpower as LamyTax suggested. AF has been the leading complaint for too long, i'm glad they worked on it, can't wait to see the results.
As for limited manpower, I remember hearing a long while back that Ricoh was re-hiring a lot of Pentax engineers that got laid off by Hoya. I wonder what their staffing is like now...

Pentax still has a lot of booth space for not too much to show at Photokina. Perhaps there will be a prototype FF model under glass and cover to be revealed at some point during the show.
09-11-2012, 12:26 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Uhhm anything announced now will be released end of this year/early next year... K-5 may be something else because it is not entirely new... If they announce K-3 ( and the rumours did also say "Photokina") later this year or early next year, we won't see it before may/june..
You mean the RHumors said "Photokina". Now, what if you see a K3 model at Photokina? What if you don't?
You'll be able to buy the K5II this year. Makes for a great Christmas present .

09-11-2012, 12:33 AM   #39
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Can we please stop associating the name "K-3" with "FF"? That assumption was derived from the April Fool's joke, and the constant abuse of that stupid photoshop (most notably by Photo Rumors). No actual rumor (one not traced directly to the April Fool's joke or the photoshop) has ever made that name association. I always check source links to see if they are independent rumors or reposts:

- In all rumors regarding a possible FF from an original source that I've seen, the source never actually gave the FF a name.
- Pretty much all recent rumors explicitly mentioning a "K-3" are referring to an APS-C camera.

If we could get this straightened out, we could avoid a whole lot of pointless confusion like is happening in this thread, as every other post seems to be talking about a different camera. K-3 in recent rumor context refers to a high-end 24MP APS-C camera, not a FF.

Last edited by Cannikin; 09-11-2012 at 12:46 AM.
09-11-2012, 12:41 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by LamyTax Quote
For now, AF at -3EV... are you guys listening!?
The Pentax community has about the highest percentage of legacy glass manual focus users. Personally, I even prefer manual focussing my AF lenses. And I know that I'm not the only one. So it's only right that this -3ev AF doesn't raise any eyebrows. We all realise that whilst the AF mechanism might work at -3ev, manual focus will be more accurate.

Current Pentax K5 owners still have no real upgrade path within the Pentax brand. Pentax should give them one VERY soon.
09-11-2012, 12:48 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The Pentax community has about the highest percentage of legacy glass manual focus users. Personally, I even prefer manual focussing my AF lenses. And I know that I'm not the only one. So it's only right that this -3ev AF doesn't raise any eyebrows. We all realise that whilst the AF mechanism might work at -3ev, manual focus will be more accurate.

Current Pentax K5 owners still have no real upgrade path within the Pentax brand. Pentax should give them one VERY soon.
Precisely. On this basis focus peaking should have been the bare minimum to be aimed for. It's an odd choice not to use the Prime M and sensor combo from the K-30 unless you're under exceptional restrictions. Even if the K-3 is coming it's an odd choice.
09-11-2012, 12:53 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Can we please stop associating the name "K-3" with "FF"? That assumption was derived from the April Fool's joke, and the constant abuse of that stupid photoshop (most notably by Photo Rumors). No actual rumor (one not traced directly to the April Fool's joke or the photoshop) has ever made that name association. I always check source links to see if they are independent rumors or reposts:

- In all rumors regarding a possible FF from an original source that I've seen, the source never actually gave the FF a name.
- Pretty much all recent rumors explicitly mentioning a "K-3" are referring to an APS-C camera.

If we could get this straightened out, we could avoid a whole lot of pointless confusion like is happening in this thread, as every other post seems to be talking about a different camera. K-3 in recent rumor context refers to a flagship 24MP APS-C camera, not a FF.
Yes, we know about the april fools joke. When I refer to the K-3, I'm talking about the next higher end Pentax. There have been naught but rumors about this camera, we don't know if it is APS-C, or if it will even be named K-3, but we need something to call what's next. It's possible they'd call a FF LXD, but nothing points to that. They could have called the K-01 something else, but they stuck with K-# (they were explicit that it should be pronounced "zero one").

BTW, I thought Adam's photoshop work was quite good.

Edit: It's also important to note that Pentax's official name K-5 II means something. This isn't a "super" or an "n" model, but a mark 2. This opens up the possibility for a mark 3, where as "super duper" wouldn't have flown. I think were seeing a shift in naming convention that opens up the option for a FF K-3 (although certainly doesn't guarentee it).

Last edited by jeffshaddix; 09-11-2012 at 01:02 AM.
09-11-2012, 12:57 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
In short: The K3 is called Nikon D600 and will be presented within the next two days.

Nikon has filled the Pentax niche wihtin the last two years and will continue to do so.
Not quite. As I have said before teh D600 will be an entry level FF, with the sole purpose of luring people into FF then wanting them to upgrade to D800 of more expensive as soon as possible... This would mean a "downgraded"FF
which may not even be a real upgrade from the APS-C capabilities of the K-5. Nope, A Pentax FF should be reallymuch better than the K-5, way above "entry level FF".

QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
A better K5 requires new glass. A large aperture 24mm lens is needed to go along with the DA55. I can think of many other lenses that need an update, but a large aperture wide angle is No1 by far.
I agree 110% with that.. In fact such a lens is more necessary than this 560 monsters. Although I will be quite happy with just a DFA 31/1.8 LE AW or DFA*24/2.0 AW


QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
The K5II could stick around for longer as the APS-C flagship with a FF camera announced fairly soon. This would make most sense ...
A feature packed K-3 will do nicley too, prbably better than the D600.
09-11-2012, 12:59 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
Precisely. On this basis focus peaking should have been the bare minimum to be aimed for. It's an odd choice not to use the Prime M and sensor combo from the K-30 unless you're under exceptional restrictions. Even if the K-3 is coming it's an odd choice.
I think M stands for Movie. This processor might not support 14 bit RAW - it would be silly to replace the K-5 with a camera with 1 EV lower DR.
09-11-2012, 01:05 AM   #45
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If we one day will see a K-3 that is FF, it's going to take some more time. Ricoh just took over Pentax last autumn (less than one year), and I assume finishin off a project of that magnitude is not done in 6 months, I would imagine that if they are working on it, it's probably still in r&d only.
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