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09-13-2012, 07:10 PM   #91
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
*cough*

Well, it's a good thing I'm a first post in that thread...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentaxian-lounge/198732-dont-lose-hope-pe...awaits-us.html

But at least the thread is open again - just missing Adam's special words
How about a mindfreak? Your comment on PF in a screenshot of a screenshot of your comment in which you are now reading on PF.

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09-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #92
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What happened you ask? I assume the police called him up and asked what drugs he was on. ;-)
09-13-2012, 08:40 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by navcom Quote
I was much younger then with a better memory! Yeah, you're probably right...don't have it any more to compare to. But no denying it could take a beating.
Your're not the first to pine for a bigger camera to facilitate grip, "like the old film SLR's" even though they were generally smaller (especially Pentax's and Olympus') than even a small DSLR like the K-5. So there must be something to it - the shape, how we used to shoot. Anyway I'm intrigued that its come up again.
09-13-2012, 09:06 PM - 3 Likes   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
...too many rumour mongers, pseudo armchair experts and critics, penny pinchers, the opinionated and a rag tag of mud slingers and trolls. Just too much negativism...
Thank you for showing us the way to being positive.

09-13-2012, 09:31 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It will take an actual FF Pentax body. :Hysterical: Everyone would think its a joke, but it would be real.
That would be quite the April Fools joke. Perhaps even post a "no FF ever" article, then follow up with "just kidding, here it is!". Can you make that happen Adam?
09-14-2012, 05:23 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
It's Godwin's Law of PentaxForums.

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability someone threatening to switch to Canikon if Pentax doesn't release a full frame approaches 1.
For very small values of "longer"
09-14-2012, 07:10 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Now that Sony has the A99 and the FF RX-1 on the go, and that 24MP FF sensor, we'll have to see what proof-of-concpet Pentas has coming. I think it is in the works but has to wait for release until Sony and its big buyer Nikon blood the market first with their volume purchases.

What Sony did by releasing the RX1 and the A99 at the same price point (US$2,800 MSRP) is demonstrate that the body is not relevant to the supply issue; the sensor is. You can wrap pretty much anything around the sensor and it will cost x because of the constraint on sensor supply.

That's the FF environment Pentax is operating under. Rumour away.
Sony isn't just re-establishing FF as THE high-end format, it's also doing its best to leave the moving mirror behind as part of camera history.

Today going on tomorrow, with the latest NEX, Fuji X and m4/3rds bodies on one end and the D600 on the other, APS-C is no longer worth the size, price and complexity of a mirror. Pentax may think they are in some kind of 'sweet spot' but the market certainly won't see it that way..
09-14-2012, 07:52 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Sony isn't just re-establishing FF as THE high-end format, it's also doing its best to leave the moving mirror behind as part of camera history.

Today going on tomorrow, with the latest NEX, Fuji X and m4/3rds bodies on one end and the D600 on the other, APS-C is no longer worth the size, price and complexity of a mirror. Pentax may think they are in some kind of 'sweet spot' but the market certainly won't see it that way..
What market are you talking about? People seem to think that DSLR's are worth the mirror based on the record breaking sales of DSLR's presently. Sony isn't in the position to reestablish anything regarding DSLR's with a marketshare even lower than Pentax.
People predicted the demise of DSLR's years ago but sales increases. Sales increase on entry level and high end APS; exactly those the armchair theorists says is under pressure! Listen to Canon (sales numbers) instead of poeple on forums believing their own preferences represents industry trends....

09-14-2012, 08:32 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
What market are you talking about? People seem to think that DSLR's are worth the mirror based on the record breaking sales of DSLR's presently. Sony isn't in the position to reestablish anything regarding DSLR's with a marketshare even lower than Pentax.
People predicted the demise of DSLR's years ago but sales increases. Sales increase on entry level and high end APS; exactly those the armchair theorists says is under pressure! Listen to Canon (sales numbers) instead of poeple on forums believing their own preferences represents industry trends....
Canon and Nikon SLRs sure. The massive incumbent SLR brands with exponentially bigger marketing, distribution and support than Pentax. More importantly for the enthusiast, they have every SLR range covered, from entry to professional, and with the D600 and coming 6D, they are both clearly steering the SLR enthusiast to FF. They own that whole path.

I'd like to see the numbers on Sony vs. Pentax marketshare, maybe in SLRs but Sony bowed out of SLRs a while back. I think you can certainly agree they haven't been sitting back though, making considerable inroads into mirrorless, compacts and FF. can't say that about our beloved brand, certainly not yet.

Mirrorless is the current threat to Canon and Nikon APS-C DSLRs, not other brand's APS-C DSLRs (Pentax). Especially when thats all they have to offer

Last edited by illdefined; 09-14-2012 at 09:08 AM.
09-14-2012, 01:39 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Mirrorless is the current threat to Canon and Nikon APS-C DSLRs
Even so, it's not clear it's all that serious a threat. It's likely that most of the so-called canabilization of APS-C DSLRs involves people who are not heavily invested in the system, i.e., those who only buy an entry level body and a kit lens or two. People who are heavily invested in a system, who happen to be the most important customers, are not likely to leave. If they do, they will likely sell their APS-C DSLR lenses to someone else who in turn will become a customer of APS-C cameras. As long as there are quality APS-C lenses floating around, there will be a market for APS-C DSLRs cameras. The notion that large numbers of photographers will gladly shoot APS-C lenses in crop mode on FF cameras or on mirrorless cameras via adapters is poorly thought out. The role of APS-C DSLRs is to provide the DSLR experience (which many prefer to rangefinders/mirrorless) to photographers of limited means. Not every photographer can afford a $2,000+ camera and $1,000+ FF zooms. Nor does everyone who can't afford FF wish to shoot with mirrorless cameras. Sometimes a small camera can be convenient, but at other times, it creates problems. Mirrorless cameras don't work really well with large lenses or large flashes; and they can be frustrating to use if you have big hands. The market for cameras is growing at a rapid rate; there is plenty of room for both mirrorless and APS-C DSLRs.
09-14-2012, 01:59 PM   #101
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Don't take this argument as against APS-C.

1) There's no reason a FF body has to be appreciably larger than a APS-C.
2) Equivalent FF zooms cost less than APS-C zooms. Check out the new Nikon. 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 = APS-C 15-55 f/2.2-2.9. $600.

A D600+24-85 is cheaper, is almost a stop faster at the wide end, is wider, is longer, and has 1.5x the resolving power of the K5 II + 16-50.

Last edited by ElJamoquio; 09-14-2012 at 02:38 PM.
09-14-2012, 02:31 PM   #102
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I think this 'sorry no FF / maybe FF in a year or so' was brilliantly played by Pentax* through Adam here. This info, leaked by someone with laser guided precision to exactly where it needed to go, who then proceeded to execute the rumor at the forums, lending it solid credibility, and the diamond tip was pulling the rumor just after it was too late to do so, which sealed the rumor to be practically fact, as in implying (if by the community alone, not directly by the involved) it had to be pulled because of it's potentially devastating consequences to whoever did the original leak. The reasoning is sound, lending credibility backwards to the original rumor. All this generated an exciting 100 % solid rumor in a matter of hours, and apart from 'here's an FF' it's the thing we wanted to hear, and as such, it is most likely enough to plug the impeding ship jumping hive mind mentality, of which there are already signs in the marketplace of this forum too. Well played Pentax, good job Adam. Wether or not it was intentional. It's good work. We who use Pentax need the other Pentax users in order to still have the Pentax around. So thanks.

*I'm just guessing, could be a pentaxian for all I know
09-14-2012, 02:34 PM - 1 Like   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Thank you for showing us the way to being positive.
The funniest thing about it is that he fits most of what he was describing . . . .
09-14-2012, 03:16 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by northcoastgreg Quote
Nor does everyone who can't afford FF wish to shoot with mirrorless cameras. Sometimes a small camera can be convenient, but at other times, it creates problems. Mirrorless cameras don't work really well with large lenses or large flashes; and they can be frustrating to use if you have big hands. The market for cameras is growing at a rapid rate; there is plenty of room for both mirrorless and APS-C DSLRs.
the question remains why Pentax DSLRs? with all the changing hands there's very little room to grow or grow from in the Pentax family it's mid-range APS-C or bust.
09-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote

Mirrorless is the current threat to Canon and Nikon APS-C DSLRs, not other brand's APS-C DSLRs (Pentax). Especially when thats all they have to offer

If Nikon and especially Canon have felt the slightest pressure form Mirrorles they would have made an onslaught at this marked years ago. When they do, they will do it in order to diversify...
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