[Pål Jensen]

Don't take this argument as against APS-C.

1) There's no reason a FF body has to be appreciably larger than a APS-C.
2) Equivalent FF zooms cost less than APS-C zooms. Check out the new Nikon. 24-85 f/3.5-4.5 = APS-C 15-55 f/2.2-2.9. $600.

A D600+24-85 is cheaper, is almost a stop faster at the wide end, is wider, is longer, and has 1.5x the resolving power of the K5 II + 16-50.

You are very selective with the lenses here. Try telephoto reach and magnification and close focusing distances. D600 do not have 1.5X the resolving power; the 40mp 645D has about 1.5x resolving power. It is in the 10% area +/-. You won't see a difference in prints at normal ISO values.

[Pål Jensen]

I think this 'sorry no FF / maybe FF in a year or so' was brilliantly played by Pentax* through Adam here. This info, leaked by someone with laser guided precision to exactly where it needed to go, who then proceeded to execute the rumor at the forums, lending it solid credibility,

If the source isn't in Japan, then it is totally unreliable uinless we are talking about products under enmbargo for close to immediate release. Pepole in the Pentax origanization outside Japan know NOTHING about forthcoming products until they can order it. I know this first hand from people working in the organization and from sources in Japan.

[Quicksand]

A D600+24-85 is cheaper, is almost a stop faster at the wide end, is wider, is longer, and has 1.5x the resolving power of the K5 II + 16-50.

Only if you use the Pentax Silly Prices.

If you get a K-5 classic and a DA*16-50 at normalish what-people-are-willing-to-pay prices, I think you come in nearly $1,000 cheaper than the Nikon setup.

[illdefined]

If Nikon and especially Canon have felt the slightest pressure form Mirrorles they would have made an onslaught at this marked years ago. When they do, they will do it in order to diversify...

no need for the onslaught just yet, their incumbency is still massive. they both already have mirrorless mounts and lenses developed and in market however, hedging their bets and ready to expand at a moment's notice. I wish the K-01 could count, but as implemented, it just doesn't.

[Aristophanes]

no need for the onslaught just yet, their incumbency is still massive. they both already have mirrorless mounts and lenses developed and in market however, hedging their bets and ready to expand at a moment's notice. I wish the K-01 could count, but as implemented, it just doesn't.

Nikon and Canon have already countered with their mirrorless offerings. Nikon has the V/J series, with smaller but close enough to m43 size.

Canon has the G1X.

Fuji have their X-series as well.

Pentax has the K-01 and the Q. Q has too small a sensor to compete, the K-01 is a little too big IMO, needs an articulating LCD, and an optional EVF.

[illdefined]

Nikon and Canon have already countered with their mirrorless offerings. Nikon has the V/J series, with smaller but close enough to m43 size.

Canon has the G1X.

Fuji have their X-series as well.

Pentax has the K-01 and the Q. Q has too small a sensor to compete, the K-01 is a little too big IMO, needs an articulating LCD, and an optional EVF.

you forgot the APS-C Canon M.

[ElJamoquio]

Only if you use the Pentax Silly Prices.

If you get a K-5 classic and a DA*16-50 at normalish what-people-are-willing-to-pay prices, I think you come in nearly $1,000 cheaper than the Nikon setup.

If you don't like that example, let's use the Canon 7D + 17-55 f/2.8. The Nikon setup is faster, cheaper, better IQ...

Or you could use the D300s...


Right now everybody's top-of-the-line APS-C camera and top-of-the-line APS-C lens is more expensive than the D600 + 24-85, and the D600 has more ability for shallow DOF (which is welcome at 24mm, usually you're always infinite there!), and 1.5x better linear resolution.

You might want a faster shutter speed or... something else that I'm not yet aware of, but right now I'd definitely go with the D600.

[Quicksand]

You might want a faster shutter speed or... something else that I'm not yet aware of, but right now I'd definitely go with the D600.

I want to use my Takumars, for one thing. So that rules out Nikon. And Canon ergonomics, ugh.

C'mon, Pentax.

[Ray Pulley]

Sony, Sigma and two others can do it in less than eleven months

Yes, but nobody noticed or bought any...

Ray

[mecrox]

Only if you use the Pentax Silly Prices.

If you get a K-5 classic and a DA*16-50 at normalish what-people-are-willing-to-pay prices, I think you come in nearly $1,000 cheaper than the Nikon setup.

Yes, where I live, a K-5 II and DA* 16-50mm is about 1000 gbp less than a D600 and 24-85mm. However, this doesn't play to Pentax's strengths since in terms of size and weight the Pentax kit with that zoom is still a bit of a heffalump albelt less so than the Nikon kit. To play to Pentax's strengths, I think you need to look at the K5 II as a high-class travel or lightweight kit and that means primes. A K5 II and DA 21mm, 40mm and 70mm limiteds is about 400 gbp less, still less but now not by nearly so much. On the basis of horses for courses, the gap isn't always as wide as you might think thanks to Pentax's rather awesome lens prices (here, anyway). Given the relative levels of investment, the real ground for someone willing to spend this much on their photography may not be bodies but glass. Bodies come and go and their price tends to go down. Lenses stay around and their price tends to go up.

[nosnoop]

People predicted the demise of DSLR's years ago but sales increases. Sales increase on entry level and high end APS; exactly those the armchair theorists says is under pressure! Listen to Canon (sales numbers) instead of poeple on forums believing their own preferences represents industry trends....

If Nikon and especially Canon have felt the slightest pressure form Mirrorles they would have made an onslaught at this marked years ago. When they do, they will do it in order to diversify...

Here are the hard facts.
For worldwide camera sales forecast for the year 2012 by IDC, DSLR is projected to sell 16.76 million units (+18%). So yes, what you said about DSLR sales increase is true.
But listen to this: mirrorless is predicted to sell 6.43 million units (a whopping increase of +60%). So mirrorless is projected to have 28% worldwide sales in 2012 by IDC.

In some markets like Japan, mirrorless has already overtaken DSLR with over 50% market share. Similar high market share is seen in other Asian countries such as Korea, Taiwan and Hong Kong. In UK, the market share of mirrorless is around 25%. It is in US where the mirrorless has failed to take off with 5 to 10 % market share.

In Japan, micro 4/3 mount cameras sales have overtaken Nikon and Canon. To be fair, the micro 4/3 cameras is a combined total of Olympus & Panasonic, so it is more like 2 vs 1. But it is still an impressive statistics nonetheless.

If you ask me, with all these stats, I personally would say yes, they are under pressure! Mirrorless is the fastest growing market segment by far.

[altopiet]

I think DSLR will still be with us for quite a while. I can't see pro's using mirrorless as a main camera to do their job, and as long as there are amateurs aspiring to take photo's like "pro's", (thinking the camera actually makes a difference, even if they're using auto mode and the LV of the camera, shooting pop up flash in daylight of people 50 meters away), DSLR will still have a following.

[Zygonyx]

If you ask me, with all these stats, I personally would say yes, they are under pressure! Mirrorless is the fastest growing market segment by far.

Hence the necessity to offer FF as well as APS-C mirror-less bodies.
And in this respect Pentax has the "limited" prime advantage, that seems to have been long time forgotten by their marketing teacons.

[stingray]

Hi, love all the complains about Pentax here...try and read about "Shitty Products" at diglloyd.com

[Asahiflex]

I still want to know why the thread was pulled and the text removed... Another prank by Adam just like his K-3 fiasco (I still hate him for that because of the damage it has done to the Pentax community)?