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09-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I disagree with this wholeheartedly.

Sony, in my view, has a "spray 'n' pray" approach to the camera market -- throw model after model after model out there, and hope some of them do well. Several APS-C and one FF DSLR-like translucent mirror cameras, check! Full-frame compact, check! 20x and 30x superzoom bridge cameras, check! Four models of NEX mirrorless, check check check check!

TOO MUCH!
But I guess Sony is now a solid #3 in the DSLR market behind Canikon, while they were still behind Pentax a few years ago. So we can say their strategy is actually paying off.

09-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Sony, in my view, has a "spray 'n' pray" approach to the camera market
Is really single shot blind folded better? I.e. the K-01 and Q.
09-18-2012, 11:03 AM   #183
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Sony already have corner sharpness problems with the NEX serries, i wonder what will happen with their FF version...
09-18-2012, 11:28 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I disagree with this wholeheartedly.

Sony, in my view, has a "spray 'n' pray" approach to the camera market -- throw model after model after model out there, and hope some of them do well. Several APS-C and one FF DSLR-like translucent mirror cameras, check! Full-frame compact, check! 20x and 30x superzoom bridge cameras, check! Four models of NEX mirrorless, check check check check!

TOO MUCH!
I prefer to think of it as throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks I've read a number of negative comments about Sony, but guess what. They're making the best sensors out there for FF, APS, and even 4/3s. With Nex, they seem to be slowing down and refining the approach rather than coming up with the new model lines. They've got a new 16-50mm zoom that compresses to only 30mm in length. IMO, Sony leads the pack for APS mirrorless.over Pentax, Nikon, Canon, and Fuji. Plus i can use my Pentax lenses on it, manual mode of course. The Nex6 is pretty civilized with its built-in hotshoe and built-in EVF. New lenses are coming out, but of course there's not the variety that Pentax has.

Pentax - get busy with your K01 successor - its needed!

09-18-2012, 11:36 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by Anvh Quote
Sony already have corner sharpness problems with the NEX serries, i wonder what will happen with their FF version...
Yep, thats a question mark in my mind. Not only the corner sharpness, but the Nex7 had a color cast with some wide angle lens and i've read that Nex5n has some of that, but to a much less degree. Hard to see any of that in the fine NEX pictures placed on PF.
09-18-2012, 11:40 AM   #186
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@Quicksand: And I agree with your disagreement wholeheartedly
By the way, I'm also a Sony user yet I can't agree with their camera strategy... well, my Sony camera has 8MP and it resides inside an Xperia Pro smartphone

QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Last year i wouldve agreed with you, but since then the 24mp NEX-7, Fuji X, weathersealed OM-D and GH3 just came out and they definitely give my K5 a run for its money. At half the weight.

Wait until the DxO rating comes out for the OM-D, its another "miracle" sensor provided by Sony. EVFs are getting better by the moment and Sony (yes, our vaunted sensor supplier) just finished investing heavily in Olympus for a sizable stake as well - it's all just beginning.

Pentax is being squeezed really hard in the middle, between mirrorless and FF. It's gotta break out.
Oh, yeah?
Can they do AF tracking? And compare them with the likes of 7D and D300s, please; we know the K-5 is not that good either.
Are they comfortable to use with heavier, pro lenses?
How about the battery life, is it good?
Do they have a real, optical viewfinder?
09-18-2012, 11:42 AM   #187
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I'm currently eyeing the OM-D and GH3 because i'm thinking of getting a BMC when it comes later this year with m4/3 mount so i might as well get a camera for that aswell i though =]
09-18-2012, 11:55 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Fortunately, the japanese site still present them.
Good, thanks for looking it up, I hope that will be enough to stop this from degenerating into the umpteenth "oh-no-the-FA-limiteds-are-gone" thread!

09-18-2012, 12:03 PM   #189
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On the other end, Pentax could make a right move if it intended to modernise those Limiteds with SDM or DC autofocus...
09-18-2012, 12:24 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Oh, yeah?
Can they do AF tracking? And compare them with the likes of 7D and D300s, please; we know the K-5 is not that good either.
Are they comfortable to use with heavier, pro lenses?
How about the battery life, is it good?
Do they have a real, optical viewfinder?
the Nikon mirrorless can AF Track. the next mirrorless with phase-detect sensors (NEX-6 already out?) will be able to as well.

not sure why heavy pro glass is such a plus, I mean there's pro FF cameras for that, but the D7000 can take those big lenses, AF track, and has an OVF/battery life too. my point is that no 7DII/D400 is needed.

Last edited by illdefined; 09-18-2012 at 12:39 PM.
09-18-2012, 12:42 PM   #191
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Nikon 1 can't touch the APS-C DSLRs, and Canon screwed up their PDAF on sensor implementation. But FYI you were talking about some specific cameras, not about what could be in the future.
Then, you're admitting the MILCs are unsuitable for such lenses?

We'll see about high end APS-C cameras not being needed.
09-18-2012, 01:17 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Nikon 1 can't touch the APS-C DSLRs, and Canon screwed up their PDAF on sensor implementation. But FYI you were talking about some specific cameras, not about what could be in the future.
Then, you're admitting the MILCs are unsuitable for such lenses?

We'll see about high end APS-C cameras not being needed.
yeah I think the whole point of MILCs is antithesis to massive glass. Panasonic is doing its part with small (and expensive) weathersealed 2.8 zooms and Sony finally got wise and got around to shrinking their main zoom.

the 7D is actually bigger than the FF 6D. i don't think APS-C is worth that bulk anymore, and instead Canon will bring the x0D line back to its former upper midrange status like the 30, 40 and 50D.

'pro' APS-C is feeling the pinch of mirrorless and FF and i think that's why we havent seen a real update to the D300 in years. I easily could be wrong, but Nikon and Canon have the resources to experiment.
09-18-2012, 01:37 PM   #193
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I can't see MILC being a more desired option to standard APS-C in the pro/enthusiast market. FF has become more available and affordable to the enthusiast, but not everyone wants to drop over $2000 on a depreciable electronic device.
09-18-2012, 02:37 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
@Quicksand: And I agree with your disagreement wholeheartedly
By the way, I'm also a Sony user yet I can't agree with their camera strategy... well, my Sony camera has 8MP and it resides inside an Xperia Pro smartphone
Sony's strategy is a tremendous marketing machine and the will to stick with something, they are a big enough and diversified enough company to totally fail on a product and not significantly harm the company (remember Sony Betamax?) They have also put many poorly built products out but survived due to diversity. This willingness to take risks have paid off and they have been responsible for some of the most cutting edge products in history, like the CD, the Walkman, the 3.5 inch floppy disk. Hard to argue with success.
09-18-2012, 02:52 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by ramseybuckeye Quote
Sony's strategy is a tremendous marketing machine and the will to stick with something, they are a big enough and diversified enough company to totally fail on a product and not significantly harm the company (remember Sony Betamax?) They have also put many poorly built products out but survived due to diversity. This willingness to take risks have paid off and they have been responsible for some of the most cutting edge products in history, like the CD, the Walkman, the 3.5 inch floppy disk. Hard to argue with success.
just this year Sony redefined the whole compact category with the RX100, in one fell swoop obsoleting long-standing camera series like the Canon S series and Panasonic's mainstay LX series. Even bruising into Nikon's 1" mirrorless entry.

Falk hinted at it also, that the FF RX1 seems like a prototype for an interchangeable FF mirrorless camera. i'd guess at that price the RX1 will fail but Sony has the resources to learn from its failures, the "darts that miss" if you will, and the next dozen darts eventually get closer to the target
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