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09-17-2012, 04:52 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Nikon and Canon do not release FF cameras to replace anything (and they won't anyway) but to fill every hole in the DSLR niche. They have so much volume that this is natural thing to do instead of updating existing cameras at a faster tempo. APS is a format in its own right and lenses and camera do not need to have a sort of constant price advantage over anything else. For most photographers, bigger sensors just mean disadvantages, not at least in price, if they do want to print larger than the smaller formats permit...
APS-C is going to be edged down the price point scale and that's inevitable as FF will edge down in a supplanting role. It's us not happening as fast as some thought in the same way that mirrorless has not taken over the world, unless you're a Leica fan, because now they have Leica video! eek:

FF comes with legacy glass that adds to APS-C price pressures. APS-C glass simply cannot continue as high-priced as before because that market space will be taken up by FF. If there are price equivalencies for a give FL, the FF will win because it will justify the added cost of the new body. So APS-C has to compete on price in the DSLR camp. (Caveat: the Fuji APS- x-series, which competes on RF-like features and handling)

It's not quite there yet, not until FF bodies get down below US$2,000, but you can smell it. APS-C has lens price concerns, and that's been $$$ to Pentax. That revenue stream is about to get badly crimped. The FF threat is in lenses, not bodies.

Nikon volumes for the D4 aren't that high, I might add. Something on the measure of a 3k per year after the initial sales burst in the first 6 months.

09-17-2012, 04:55 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Jeez.

Ricoh has owned Pentax for less than a year at this point.

..........

There's a huge crowd of APS-C DSLR people out there, and if there isn't a viable Pentax upgrade path, then some of them will upgrade to Canon/Nikon FF. Many won't. I don't see that equation changing this year, next year, or anytime soon.
Great post Quicksand...I am actually very excited what the K5IIs offers especially in terms of AF and the difference no aa filter makes.
09-17-2012, 05:05 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Actually, really wide lenses, ie supe wide angles is much better both optically and pricewise for APS. They are easier to design not only due to the smaller image circle but also due to no restriction from the lens mount. Super wide angles for FF are very expensive and complex.
\
The Sigma 12-24mm FF zoom is wider than the APS-C 8-16mm version. Is there a fast super wide angle in APS-C like the FF Sigma 20mm F1.8 ? Is there a small APS-C super wide angle ( 84° ) like the FF SMC Pentax-M 20mm F4 ? Is there a fast super wide angle APS-C like the FF Samyang 24mm F1.4 ? Is there a fast ultra wide APS-C zoom like the FF Nikon 14-24mm AFS f/2.8 G ED ?
09-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #124
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Some answers

QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
Any impressions on the DA 560? No samples shots provided? ...
Wait - I thought the RX1 was a fixed lens camera?
The RX1 is fixed lens, but is built almost identical to a full frame mirrorless but without the mount.

The other difference is the shutter.

The 560 was declared prototype and taking photos (i.e., mounting my K-5) was not permitted.


QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Not even a prototype unveiling? Ouch.

How would you gauge the level of general interest and attendance at the Pentax booth vs. any other brand?

Can you take a pic with the K5II with CA and Lens Corrections set to ON and see if there is still a long delay in processing before playback? Thanks again
Photokina only opens tomorrow.

But the interest from the press (who could enter today already) was high. Not as high as Canikon but it was there.

The K-5II have empty (and sealed) card doors and I fear that I cannot try that out. I'll try to check w/o card inserted.

QuoteOriginally posted by soalle Quote
Would you mind asking official information about the sensitivity of the k-30 sensors? Are they f5.6 or f2.8?
I'll ask that.

AFAIK, the extra low EV specification is linked to that f/2.8 feature. Does the K-30 have that spec too?

09-17-2012, 05:32 PM   #125
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Photokina 2012: The LEICA event


QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I'll post more after the break (the break is Leica's VIP event tonight).
The break is over, but now I have to sleep.

But this LEICA event was fun. The following information might not be available elsewhere

-> Falk Lumo: Photokina 2012: The Leica event


And let me say this much: Leica seems to feel extremely strong these days, even joking (BEFORE the announcement) that if one is ordering now, one may get was it next summer (they meant it as a joke, but still ...).
09-17-2012, 05:34 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The K-5II have empty (and sealed) card doors and I fear that I cannot try that out
Why would they do that, it is not new tech. Unless it is secretly a FF in disguise.
09-17-2012, 05:37 PM   #127
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No surprises.

I am not surprised Pentax didn't release a higher end aps-c camera. It would be overshadowed buy all of the full frame hype at the moment. A semi-pro aps-c from pentax ( 7d level) wont be released until new models of the same caliber are released by canikony. Pentax only give minor upgrades to keep the exsisting user base buying (must resist urge), time to break the cycle people. But what harm could there be in letting us know that they are working on a full frame camera? It would make alot of people happy would it not.
09-17-2012, 05:39 PM   #128
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If I remember correctly, the K-5 was release before the D7000. Availability may be different, but the announcement was K-5 then D7000

09-17-2012, 05:45 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
The problem is after this year, the term "APS-C DSLR" has officially been downgraded to a patently consumer format.

I very much doubt there will ever be a 7Dmk II or a D400.
what about 4/3 system.
09-17-2012, 05:49 PM   #130
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My (worthless) guess is really the issue is the hot potato effect of the company being bounced around.. they are probably 6-12 months behind schedule for where they would have been?? I mean the K-5 II would have made a lot more sense a year ago..
09-17-2012, 06:27 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

The break is over, but now I have to sleep.

But this LEICA event was fun. The following information might not be available elsewhere

-> Falk Lumo: Photokina 2012: The Leica event


And let me say this much: Leica seems to feel extremely strong these days, even joking (BEFORE the announcement) that if one is ordering now, one may get was it next summer (they meant it as a joke, but still ...).
And this from a company that several people here were dismissing as a rich man's plaything, not so long ago. My experience of rich people is that they don't tend to throw money away, particularly if it's their own.

Nice to see the steady growth in product lines from Leica. In its own unheralded way, it's not unlike Pentax's development. At least Leica fans don't go running off shouting about giving it away and going to Hasselblad.
09-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
I am a bit worried about the K-01 since I didn't see anything at Photokina to indicate that they are building anything to support that camera.
Someone said a Pentax rep said it wasn't selling well a few weeks ago IIRC. Can't say I blame them w/ the K-30 which IMHO was much more interesting to most DSLR users than the K-01.

BTW, saw this on Techcrunch (a techie blog) tonight: Canon’s New Full-Frame 6D: The Beginning Of The End For APS-C At $2099 | TechCrunch
Funny that they're thinking the same thing about APS-C that some on this thread are guessing will happen...

p.s., Falk: if you get a chance, could you ask them if the AF sensor sites are smaller than the current AF sensor? Those damned giant *ss AF points are the source of a huge number of "misfocusing" complaints... :-P
09-17-2012, 06:47 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
I am not surprised Pentax didn't release a higher end aps-c camera. It would be overshadowed buy all of the full frame hype at the moment. A semi-pro aps-c from pentax ( 7d level) wont be released until new models of the same caliber are released by canikony. Pentax only give minor upgrades to keep the exsisting user base buying (must resist urge), time to break the cycle people. But what harm could there be in letting us know that they are working on a full frame camera? It would make alot of people happy would it not.
The only thing I can think is that Pentax is afraid that people will hold off buying APS-C bodies and lenses if they know that full frame is in the offing.
09-17-2012, 07:17 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
I am not surprised Pentax didn't release a higher end aps-c camera. It would be overshadowed buy all of the full frame hype at the moment. A semi-pro aps-c from pentax ( 7d level) wont be released until new models of the same caliber are released by canikony. Pentax only give minor upgrades to keep the exsisting user base buying (must resist urge), time to break the cycle people. But what harm could there be in letting us know that they are working on a full frame camera? It would make alot of people happy would it not.
I don't think so. the K-5 was clearly what the K-7 was supposed to be, and it seems the K-5II is a fix for the K-5. It's frustrating seeing Pentax tripping over themselves just trying to keep up as they switch ownerships and the competition blows right by.

I dont think anyone really expected a FF K-mount release this year, but we expected an FF announcement or prototype, just some signs of life at the high-end. Not updating to 24mp or new Prime processor, the K5II is such a punt - not even up to date with Pentax's own K30 or K-01, much less the competition. The new K5 AF system may be a significant upgrade for Pentax, but I very much doubt its even competitive with the 2year old + D7000 or 7D.

one source of encouragement is that Pentax is clearly reserving their sensor budget and body fabrication resources for something entirely new in the pipeline, hopefully testing out the new AF system for something new being made from the ground-up. the big question is WHEN
09-17-2012, 07:31 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pioneer Quote
Personally I was thrilled with this year's Photokina announcements so I guess it just depends on your perspective. For many, many years I have watched Pentax build a terrific camera, then seem to walk away from it. Two quick examples of this are the LX and the PZ-1p. I am a bit worried about the K-01 since I didn't see anything at Photokina to indicate that they are building anything to support that camera. But at least they did not leave the Q hanging. There were 3 announcements related to the Q and that to me was a huge positive for that little system.

Of course there are some of you who just cannot take a small camera serious. Instead you just have to have a wannabe Canikon full frame. For those of you who just absolutely cannot stand it until Pentax has a full frame DSLR, go buy a 35mm film camera and a scanner! Either that or buy the new Nikon since everyone seems so thrilled with it.
I love small cameras (and lenses), its why I originally went with Pentax in the first place. An FF camera doesn't have to be any larger than the K-5, the only challenge being an SR platter that would accommodate FF. FA lenses and FA Limiteds are still much smaller than Canikon's counterparts.

It's not just me who take small cameras seriously either. FF isn't the only thing challenging Pentax and the APS-C DSLR, but also Sony NEX, Samsung NX, Olympus OM-D and the Panasonic GH3. Pentax doesn't live in a vacuum, even though some people here seem to wish it did.

Last edited by illdefined; 09-17-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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