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09-20-2012, 07:58 AM - 1 Like   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
how hard would it be to get someone to stock a $2500 Pentax FF camera?
Using my area as an indicator, the only place you might find one is the one specialty camera shop that stocks everything. There are no big box stores that I know of in this area stocking any full-frame cameras at all and that certainly doesn't bode well for the underdog.

That's my biggest complaint and the one that I wish Team FF would allow time to fix. I'm not saying never ever FF, but is it too much to ask that Pentax be allowed to put the resources they have available into creating something that will actually make it into stores and the infrastructure to widely market and distribute it? Then they can focus on providing a real system that meets the needs of the FF niche; not just a body that ought to be a prototype rushed out with no decent system. All in the name of getting people to stop screaming like children who want ice cream now.

For any I-need-an-FF-now types who wish to respond, I have a favor to ask, please include with any response a specific answer to the following question: Why do you need a Pentax FF camera? Note: I'm not interested in the general technical aspects I know about FF vs APS-C. I want to know why you specifically must have a Pentax FF right now. I genuinely want to know why it is suddenly so important.

09-20-2012, 08:01 AM - 1 Like   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The Alpha mount isn't dead and you have been talking about the mounts. Again, Nikon has been with their mount for over 10 years longer than Pentax has been with the K-mount. I won't go as far as to say the K-mount has saved Pentax, but had they dumped it I wouldn't be with them.
Which mount is Sony focused on? Which mount mount does Sony see the most potential with? Sony announced last Spring that they were focusing on E-mount design and that some Alpha lenses on the road map would be pushed back.

Take a look at all the new 3rd party lenses for E-mount announced this year. How many have we seen for K-mount?
What about the new Zeiss lenses for the brand new (less than a year old X-Mount). Or SLR magic's new glass for X-mount? Any of those announced for K-mount? Any one notice how fast Sigma has been lately on producing K-mount versions of its new glass?

K-mount has SO MUCH value that 3rd party lens makers are just falling all over themselves to make new lenses and meet the underwhelming demand.

Please... Someone quantify the value of K-mount. Point to something tangible that demonstrates this value. Ricoh bought Pentax for practically pocket change. $124 million included all manufacturing and hard property, patents and soft assets. Some fraction of the $124 million is the value of the K-mount.
09-20-2012, 08:11 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
This is exactly what the "FF Whiners" are worried about and that is what keeps pushing us towards going the way of Canikon. The only thing holding me back is that I really love my K5 and my lenses.
This is why it has been so hard to sell my K-5 and lenses . I did sell two K-5's and one lens a few months back but ended up buying another body when I really should have just sold my lenses. I had all of my lenses 'wasting away' in a bag and the guilt got to me. The only Pentax lens I am using these days on my K-5 is the FA*300/4.5 so I may as well just sell up as I am using the Nikon for everything else.
09-20-2012, 08:20 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Someone quantify the value of K-mount.
Mounts come attached to cameras and lenses. A mount sells when cameras sell and that happens to be an area where Pentax doesn't seem to be doing their best. In contrast, Sony, Fuji, et al are selling E-mount and X-mount cameras hand over fist. The mount isn't saving the company, nor is it hurting the company.

09-20-2012, 09:42 AM   #185
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QuoteQuote:
Why do you need a Pentax FF camera? [...] I genuinely want to know why it is suddenly so important.
Who needs a camera? Would a mobile phone with integrated camera not be sufficient? Or a compact camera? Why use a camera at all? Go painting!
Suddenly? You mean, we haven't been waiting for it since 2001?

The main question in this thread imho is: Has a FF camera unintendedly been announced by Pentax/Ricoh in this interview?
It is not: Who would need it? Would it sell? Is it reasonable? I don't want it! etc.

QuoteQuote:
Someone quantify the value of K-mount
= about 90% of the value of Pentax under Ricoh?
09-20-2012, 09:50 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Which mount is Sony focused on? Which mount mount does Sony see the most potential with? Sony announced last Spring that they were focusing on E-mount design and that some Alpha lenses on the road map would be pushed back.

Take a look at all the new 3rd party lenses for E-mount announced this year. How many have we seen for K-mount?
What about the new Zeiss lenses for the brand new (less than a year old X-Mount). Or SLR magic's new glass for X-mount? Any of those announced for K-mount? Any one notice how fast Sigma has been lately on producing K-mount versions of its new glass?

K-mount has SO MUCH value that 3rd party lens makers are just falling all over themselves to make new lenses and meet the underwhelming demand.

Please... Someone quantify the value of K-mount. Point to something tangible that demonstrates this value. Ricoh bought Pentax for practically pocket change. $124 million included all manufacturing and hard property, patents and soft assets. Some fraction of the $124 million is the value of the K-mount.
Once again you failed to answer my question about the Nikon F mount. Your theory would be more believable if Nikon were sucking wind. Those same 3rd party lens makers make plenty of lenses for Nikon. The issue with Pentax for most 3rd party makers is the fact that Pentax has been about 5% of the dSLR market for the past decade. Plus, they didn't work with the 3rd party guys under Hoya and actually derailed Tokina releasing lenses with K-mount. There is absolutely know reason for a new Pentax mount for Pentax dSLR. Sony is going to screw up if they aren't careful. People will endup with a mount of the year that will become paper weights in 3 to 5.

edit: Sony dSLR including the A99 ff are using the alpha mount.

http://store.sony.com/c/Alpha-DSLR-Cameras-And-Accessories/en/c/S_Digital_SLR_Cameras

Last edited by Blue; 09-20-2012 at 09:56 AM.
09-20-2012, 09:54 AM - 1 Like   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
This is exactly what the "FF Whiners" are worried about and that is what keeps pushing us towards going the way of Canikon. The only thing holding me back is that I really love my K5 and my lenses. I wanted to upgrade my system to include both FF and Crop and I didn't want to have to start over in a new manufacturer to do so.
+1 I'm in the same boat, although I don't normally post a lot about it. This time next year I will be faced with the decision of whether to stay with Pentax, meaning they have a FF body, or moving on to Nikon. No whining, just a fact.
09-20-2012, 09:57 AM   #188
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A lot of Pentaxian will change system after this Photokina...Already started to sell Pentax gears. It's a pity....
But if Pentax doesn't need our money, they will give money to other brands...

I'd like to say about Russian Penta-Club - a lot of users of another systems. Even moderators of club (90%) are N/C/Oly/Sony users. Not Pentaxian.
Already many users of Sony, Samsung, Olympus. If the user has Pentax, it's not the main system already. Alas....

It will be new Exodus...


Last edited by ogl; 09-20-2012 at 10:03 AM.
09-20-2012, 10:04 AM   #189
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Pentax doesn't need us, ogl.
We are an insignificant minority.
09-20-2012, 10:11 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
Pentax doesn't need us, ogl.
We are an insignificant minority.
No, recall that officials at Pentax USA stated that we are not their customers, Adorama, B&H, and those mythical B&M stores are their real customers.
09-20-2012, 10:30 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
The main question in this thread imho is: Has a FF camera unintendedly been announced by Pentax/Ricoh in this interview?
I'm asking this generally and less in response to this particular thread, but regardless I think I can safely answer that question: no they haven't announced a FF.They acknowledged that they have absolutely heard all the wailing for a Pentax FF and they've no doubt seen their competitors releasing FF cameras. How could they miss these things? I'm pretty sure someone has issued a demand for it on every Facebook post they've made since the announcements, not to mention all the traction the idea has on here, and I'm not sure how they could miss Nikon's and Canon's announcements. This doesn't mean they can/will/should/ ever produce one.

QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
Who needs a camera? Would a mobile phone with integrated camera not be sufficient? Or a compact camera? Why use a camera at all? Go painting!
On all accounts, whatever you've got is better than nothing at all, but need isn't my word. I've actually seen need used with regard to a Pentax FF.

QuoteOriginally posted by froeschle Quote
You mean, we haven't been waiting for it since 2001?
Why, though? Has there been a credible reason to actually expect any such thing since Pentax killed the MZ-D? I'm in the market for a new cell phone, but Pentax don't make those either. Where is my new Pentax camera phone?! I guess I just view FF as something like MF or MILCs; I don't necessarily expect one company to meet all my requirements. If I can't get it from Pentax and Canikon offer something that is a good match, why shouldn't I go for it now instead of waiting for something that doesn't exist?
09-20-2012, 11:13 AM - 1 Like   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
A lot of Pentaxian will change system after this Photokina...Already started to sell Pentax gears. It's a pity....
But if Pentax doesn't need our money, they will give money to other brands...

I'd like to say about Russian Penta-Club - a lot of users of another systems. Even moderators of club (90%) are N/C/Oly/Sony users. Not Pentaxian.
Already many users of Sony, Samsung, Olympus. If the user has Pentax, it's not the main system already. Alas....

It will be new Exodus...
This is the same situation in Asia too!
So many Pentaxians plan to jump ship in these months and the price of Pentax gears will be falling in the used market soon.
And of course, Pentax will lose those potential buyers to buy their new products.
In such small market share in digital camera world. Pentax still doesn't has any surprising products in this year
I really don't understand how can Pentax maintain their business and still alive in the market.
09-20-2012, 11:16 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Pros are conecerned by the bottomline. FF means more expoenses; thats why most pros use APS. .
I know that the smaller formats do satisfy the needs of a good number of photographers and I am glad that it works for you.

I think you are wrong about the comment about most pros using APS - at least for where I am. I know a lot of the other wedding shooters in my area have APS as a backup body, but honestly, I am the only moderate to high end wedding photographer in my area that I know of that shoots exclusively crop. Some of the others that I network with will not use me as a back-up or second shooter because I do not have FF in my system. Perhaps it has to do with being in the States and Pentax being such a non-competitor here; I don't know. And I certainly cannot speak for regions other than the one I am in, so maybe where you are it is different.
09-20-2012, 11:40 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by areidjr Quote
+1 I'm in the same boat, although I don't normally post a lot about it. This time next year I will be faced with the decision of whether to stay with Pentax, meaning they have a FF body, or moving on to Nikon. No whining, just a fact.
+1 Quite in the same situation except that I already own a 5D MKII + a few lenses for portraiture, but I'd prefer to own a single system...
09-20-2012, 11:44 AM - 2 Likes   #195
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In reading all our comments and more, there is still one underlying issue that isn't being addressed, IMO, enough. The FF issue is significant to owners of Pentax. But, how are you going to attract non owners of Pentax? What are they doing? Advertising on Amazon, or if you are camera literate, in some of the larger B&M facilities such as B&H, Adorama, etc? I can go to any electronics retail outlet and pick up the competition. Nikon, Canon, Sony....are all in abundance and in plain sight. I can handle them, feel their differences, ask questions re: their capabilities, etc. But if I want a Pentax......good luck! They aren't out there where Joe Blow can compare, see the reasons why we are so adamant about our product. See the different and fantastic colors that are available. So what if I can see it on Amazon. If I can't see one in person, talk to a salesperson who knows the good, bad, and ugly of the product, am I going to fork over $900 for an unknown? Don't think so when I have the Canikons staring at me in the face, they are everywhere, and everybody uses them so obviously they must be the best. Pentax has to get these out in front of the public. They are not going to gain market share with non-users by just advertising on the internet. I am not a current owner of a Pentax camera but had a 35mm for 30 years. I know Pentax makes a great product, but my neighbor probably doesn't. Even if I still had it and showed it to my neighbor who may be looking to get a camera, he can't find one in a store to put his hands on it and compare with. He just sees the Canokons!!! FF may be something of interest to you current owners, but I feel, and this is my opinion only, that unless Pentax finds a way to get their products back out in front of the general public we are all just spinning our wheels. This is an environment where only the strong are going to survive. Pentax along with the other 3rd tier companies are all vying for the same new user market. My daughter purchased the Sony A37 I believe. I mentioned to her to ask the store where she bought it about Pentax and she was told Pentax wouldn't/couldn't hold a candle to the A37, and this is Sony's entry level DSLR. Now if she is told that, even if she had interest, she wouldn't pursue it. Plus, there was or isn't anything there for her to hold and compare to. i know I'm beating a dead horse, but FF isn't the lifejacket of Pentax. It is new users or converts from the "dark side" who have had a chance to actually see and handle what Pentax has to offer. We need visibility. The Tours Pentax was putting didn't touch any small market locations, only went to about a half dozen states, and in some cases were cancelled. Get the product out in front of real people, show them real product, show and talk about the history, and show then what we have to offer and I can reasonably guarantee sales are going to be there. It will take time but it is more optimistic going that route than bringing out a FF camera. Most people don't know or care what a FF is. They want something new and fresh and Pentax, with their 3 colors in the US and a myriad of them overseas, can compete against any of the other manufacturers out there. They have the ability, they have the technology, they have the name, and the features that will sell. Can they do better? Of course they can! But not if noone knows who they are or what they have to offer.

I know, I may not be right in all my assumptions. I'm new to the forum. But I've been reading all that has been put in front of us and for me, someone who is seriously pondering purchasing the K-30, by not having it available to see and handle, is a major drawback.Everyone says it feels this way or that way, the buttons are this and that......means nothing to me. I'll consider Pentax because I've used them in the past. I want to use them in the future. But if I have a Canon and a Nikon sitting in front of me and all I have is verbage about the good things of Pentax but I can't hold it, it makes my decision, right or wrong, very difficult. I'm leaning with my heart, but my gut may actually win out. I hope not. Get it out to the public. You sure don't have anything to lose.

I hope I haven't made too many upset for not caring about all this FF stuff, but you aren't the only ones who want to come to Pentax. Newbies are out here....listen to us! We may be the ones who can keep this thing going but not if we don't have anything to compare with. Enjoy and let's keep the faith.
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