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09-19-2012, 09:26 PM - 2 Likes   #121
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I question the future of Pentax if these Full-Framers get their wish. In fact, I wish I had a few million dollars to buy everyone that "needs" a FF camera a Nikon or Canon so that they'll go away and let the company focus on actually fixing itself. Honestly, I couldn't care less if they ever release a FF camera, because they will never last as a company without fixing their marketing and distribution problems. They absolutely shouldn't be wasting cycles on throwing a minority a bone, when they ought to be focusing full-time on entering markets like India and fixing ones like the US to increase their visibility and market share. They need an increased market share a lot more than they need to put good money into a FF camera nobody is going to buy because they've never heard of Pentax.

09-19-2012, 09:39 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
but throw a dog a bone...a real one.
I think Pentax is leary of bone throwing after their 645D experience.

QuoteQuote:
An 18MP 645 protoype was announced at the Photo Imagaing Expo in Toyko in 2005, but the camera never materialized. Meanwhile FF 35mm pixel-counts gallopped past the 18MP marker. At PMA in 2007, Pentax announced a 31MP 645D, but again the camera did not reach market.
Quote fom Luminous Landscape: Pentax 645D - A First Review
09-19-2012, 09:45 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The strange part is the lack of Pentax gear available in stores in Colorado in the past.
Well I don't know of a single Chicago camera store that actually carries Pentax gear.
09-19-2012, 09:51 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
I think Pentax is leary of bone throwing after their 645D experience.



fom Luminous Landscape: - A First Review[/url]
Okay, but what will they do when the last of their pros leave because they feel that we are a minimum of 2 years from FF? The 645 debacle was Hoya...they didn't deliver on time. I have faith that if ricoh says it is coming in a year it will come. But I do need something concrete to believe that it is coming...and within a reasonable time frame. the reality is that Pentax is facing their worst competition to date. They have no choice but to respond. At this point continuing to decline to say that FF is even in development equates to saying that FF is definitely not in development and that equates to a lot of people jumping ship...probably more than ever before.

09-19-2012, 09:59 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I actually hope Pentax develops a new mount for a Full-Frame EVIL.
I hope they don't. One of Pentax' best selling points is that almost every lens they ever made can be mounted on their K-mount cameras.
09-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I think that is what they intended when they re-named it but why leave Canada out?
Canada is doing quite well. I was recently in Kelowna, a town of about 115k or so. The camera retailers there, London Drugs (two locations) and Lens and Shutter all had Pentax gear in stock. K01, K30 and K5 plus a collection of lenses. Same in Calgary. The local stores can order if they want, they don't stock much of anything. We have a two year warranty as well.

Pentax can do better of course, and it comes down to product line and quality.

Personally what I'm looking for is some reassurance that the K mount lenses that I'm considering will be useful for another two bodies. The update of the K5 gives some assurance here, and I suspect that I'll see something in the spring that will give me some indication.
09-19-2012, 10:14 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
and what on Earth is this, Adam? Have you seen this at Photokina? ogl posted this on another thread
Yeah it's on display there. It's a device which can take 360-degree photos somehow. I can get a better look tomorrow...they had a TV with a sample of it in action, I believe.

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09-19-2012, 10:23 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Allison Quote
But I do need something concrete to believe that it is coming...and within a reasonable time frame.

When you say an FF camera, I can actually think of at least 6 FF cameras that Pentax Ricoh can deliver within the next 12 months.


QuoteQuote:
the reality is that Pentax is facing their worst competition to date. They have no choice but to respond. At this point continuing to decline to say that FF is even in development equates to saying ...

I think that's the main problem here: they can play catching up with big three, in everything they didn't have chance to do during the last 10 years, and they'll exhaust themselves. Or instead, they can do something smarter. I bet they will invest into something smarter and still deliver enough to satisfy the need for a great quality FF mirror DSLR.


QuoteQuote:
that FF is definitely not in development and that equates to a lot of people jumping ship...probably more than ever before.

So if I were you, I'd invest into a FF Canon right now and prove myself wrong later.
Better prove yourself wrong later than today, because at least for today you can have a peace of mind.

09-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by meeverett Quote
They absolutely shouldn't be wasting cycles on throwing a minority a bone, when they ought to be focusing full-time on entering markets like India and fixing ones like the US to increase their visibility and market share.
The thing is you can develop an FF camera and fix your marketing problems at the same time (different people are responsible for these different areas).

Also, the Pentax FF fans may be a minority still, but notice the recent D600 and 6D full-frame offerings pushing FF prices lower.

It would have been good if Pentax could have leapfrogged the competition and had offered a budget FF first in order to lure some Canikonians over to Pentax. That didn't happen but if Pentax doesn't offer a FF model soon, it will bleed many enthusiast photographers (with deep pockets for future glass purchases) to Canikon.

Eventually, any company just offering APS-C models will have a hard time to survive because competitors will be able to offer better image quality for comparable (or better prices), if you include the glass in the cost calculation.
09-19-2012, 10:53 PM - 1 Like   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote

Eventually, any company just offering APS-C models will have a hard time to survive because competitors will be able to offer better image quality for comparable (or better prices), if you include the glass in the cost calculation.
What on Earth are you talking about? It's interesting how slightly cheaper FF bodies make people lose their marbles and rational perspective on things:

- Nikon's FF 70-210mm/2.8 is $2400
- Pentax's APS-C 50-135/2.8 is $1400 (its highest price)

That is saving of $1000 dollars, on just one lens. Those are two lenses equivalent ONLY in angles they cover, but in everything else, from portability and weight and handling and price, the 50-135/2.8 is the clear winner.

There *IS* a place for APS-C, despite what anxious daddies think about the FF. The APS-C is the fulfilment of promise what digital promised long ago — that one can achieve a great quality of image at an affordable price, at a smaller size, and with uncompromised quality that goes with it. To match that same level of quality, benefits and price, an FF system will always be compromised.

A good FF DSLR will never cost same as the good APS-C DSLR, it will always be more expensive no matter what. It is more likely that a castrated, entry level FFs will cost as much as the best of APS-Cs. So at any given time, one can save considerably and gain considerably more by staying with a good APS-C system.

But if it's your vanity at stake here, and you must show off with an FF DSLR, then we're talking about a totally different problem altogether and you're twisting the physical facts to satisfy your cognitive dissonance.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-19-2012 at 11:02 PM.
09-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Those are two lenses equivalent ONLY in angles they cover, but in everything else, from portability and weight and handling and price, the 50-135/2.8 is the clear winner.
I agree with the point you are making, but to nitpick: The Nikkor on FF would be about 1 stop faster.
09-19-2012, 11:08 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
ahh.. paragraphs, man!
I never read any long post that isn't split into smaller paragraphs.
09-19-2012, 11:09 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
A good FF DSLR will never cost same as the good APS-C DSLR, it will always be more expensive no matter what.
Think so? If APSC is no longer mainstream, but some kind of niche product, then those prices will go up. Part of the reason FF prices are dropping even further is that more and more people are able to afford it. Higher volumes, etc, etc...

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is more likely that a castrated, entry level FFs will cost as much as the best of APS-Cs. So at any given time, one can save considerably and gain considerably more by staying with a good APS-C system.
What's castrated? IMHO a fully featured DSLR with a crop sensor is castrated. I've bought me a FF DSLR from the competition recently, and I have to admit, there's not a feature in the world that's more useful and, more importantly, more fun, then an "uncut" sensor.

And yes, you're right, there will always be a place for old APSC-lenses. After all, there is the crop mode.
09-19-2012, 11:15 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The thing is you can develop an FF camera and fix your marketing problems at the same time (different people are responsible for these different areas).
It's all the same money and I'd rather see them spending it on making sure the company stays around another 90 years than cloning $2,000 Canikons. The existence of a FF Pentax camera would more likely then not have a negligible benefit on the company and the costs of creating anything worth having would almost certainly have a negative effect on the bottom-line. I'm not interested in sacrificing the company's future on subsidizing a pipe dream. Let them sort out the company and start actually competing in a meaningful way with bigger companies and then I'll start thinking about how great it would be to have a FF camera out of Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
It would have been good if Pentax could have leapfrogged the competition and had offered a budget FF first in order to lure some Canikonians over to Pentax.
This never would have happened. Why would they jump from their cruise ship on to our dingy? Besides, Canon got a "budget FF" the day they released the 5D MkIII and kept the MkII in the line-up at a reduced price. It's currently $1,900 at B&H if you really need something with a FF.
09-19-2012, 11:19 PM - 1 Like   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Annatefkah Quote
!8 months or longer to develop a FF! All they need to do as far as I am concerned is to take their new K5 and scale it up slightly to put in a FF sensor. Problem solved! LOL
Even easier, throw a FF sensor in the 645D. Instant FF. Well call it the K1337.

And then take things one step farther. Make one with interchangeable sensor cassettes. So you can have your FF, APS-C. APS-H, Four thirds, 1/2.3, etc. In the tradition of funny Pentax camera names (ie *ist), this one will be called the K1337 / (slash).
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