[Docrwm]

I know that the smaller formats do satisfy the needs of a good number of photographers and I am glad that it works for you.

I think you are wrong about the comment about most pros using APS - at least for where I am. I know a lot of the other wedding shooters in my area have APS as a backup body, but honestly, I am the only moderate to high end wedding photographer in my area that I know of that shoots exclusively crop. Some of the others that I network with will not use me as a back-up or second shooter because I do not have FF in my system. Perhaps it has to do with being in the States and Pentax being such a non-competitor here; I don't know. And I certainly cannot speak for regions other than the one I am in, so maybe where you are it is different.

I can tell you that when we helped out my sister there were 0 cropped shooters in the pool she was looking at. Ditto on the last fundraiser black tie event that I was on the committee for. I know there are some, but they don't shoot the stuff I attend. Oh, and I did not select the pool of photogs for the last even, just was on the committee when their portfolios were brought to us for our opinions.

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Last edited by Docrwm; 09-20-2012 at 01:54 PM.

[Laurentiu Cristofor]

I really don't understand how can Pentax maintain their business and still alive in the market.

They couldn't. That's why "they" are now just an "it".

[Dave L]

I hope I haven't made too many upset for not caring about all this FF stuff, but you aren't the only ones who want to come to Pentax. Newbies are out here....listen to us! We may be the ones who can keep this thing going but not if we don't have anything to compare with. Enjoy and let's keep the faith.

To be fair, I think the FF crowd is a vocal minority - an important minority (as all Pentax owners are) but a minority. I agree with you though, "FF now" isn't going to help Pentax to grow, "in the shops now" is what's needed before almost anything else and certainly before FF.

One thing at a time.

[audiobomber]

To be fair, I think the FF crowd is a vocal minority - an important minority (as all Pentax owners are) but a minority. I agree with you though, "FF now" isn't going to help Pentax to grow, "in the shops now" is what's needed before almost anything else and certainly before FF.

One thing at a time.

I agree too, the biggest need is better marketing and distribution, a costly venture in the short term. The big hole in the line right now is a K-300. Pentax needs to attract lots of newbies to make up for a handful of FF'ers who are are on their way out. Or not. Then fill in the lenses shown on the roadmap. There are some good sellers there. How about a new flash? Ricoh fans got stiffed at Photokina, and Pentax needs a stronger MILC entry. These are all far more important to the business than a full-frame camera.

[mee]

This is the same situation in Asia too!
So many Pentaxians plan to jump ship in these months and the price of Pentax gears will be falling in the used market soon.
And of course, Pentax will lose those potential buyers to buy their new products.

If the doom you speaketh becomes true, then this is GREAT news for me. Well.. Does this mean I will be able to get a gently used K-5 body for $500 USD or less?? Some cheap DA* lenses?

[mee]

I agree too, the biggest need is better marketing and distribution, a costly venture in the short term. The big hole in the line right now is a K-300. Pentax needs to attract lots of newbies to make up for a handful of FF'ers who are are on their way out. Or not. Then fill in the lenses shown on the roadmap. There are some good sellers there. How about a new flash? Ricoh fans got stiffed at Photokina, and Pentax needs a stronger MILC entry. These are all far more important to the business than a full-frame camera.

Agreed.. there really does need to be a K-r replacement (and, no, to those thinking the K-30 is a K-r replacement it is not).

K-300 with 16Mp sensor, the updated K-30 video features, no WR, no Focus Peaking, No extra dial.. $650 or so retail.

[CRPhoto]

I suspect it's a bigger market than just the US. Surely Pentax Ricoh Americas will also manage South and Central America? Right now the camera division has no representation south of Mexico.

Here in Costa Rica there's a Pentax authorized dealer. They have just announced the K30 (for $880 plus tax, and with the 18-135 $1220 plus tax).

[c-meier]

They have just announced the K30 (for $880 plus tax, and with the 18-135 $1220 plus tax).

Depending how much tax is, that doesn't sound too bad.
Here in Chile, the only Pentax you can get from a dealer is the K-r, at US$1050, including taxes. Nikonians are a bit better off, but not by much. Canon you can buy in every city.

[Docrwm]

Here in Costa Rica there's a Pentax authorized dealer. They have just announced the K30 (for $880 plus tax, and with the 18-135 $1220 plus tax).

Depending how much tax is, that doesn't sound too bad.
Here in Chile, the only Pentax you can get from a dealer is the K-r, at US$1050, including taxes. Nikonians are a bit better off, but not by much. Canon you can buy in every city.

Who is the distributor for those dealers? Do you happen to know? Pentax USA is listed officially with Pentax-Ricoh of Japan as "Pentax Ricoh Imaging Americas Corporation".

[ChopperCharles]

So where's the transcript with all the questions and answers?

Charles.

[markac]

Even easier, throw a FF sensor in the 645D. Instant FF. Well call it the K1337.

And then take things one step farther. Make one with interchangeable sensor cassettes. So you can have your FF, APS-C. APS-H, Four thirds, 1/2.3, etc. In the tradition of funny Pentax camera names (ie *ist), this one will be called the K1337 / (slash).

You're right, the 645D needs a FF sensor. A medium format FF sensor actually. About time that happened too!

[markac]

It's good to hear that an FF DSLR could finally be appearing. In the meantime, I'll sit on my K20D clone (my Samsung GX-20) for another year or so and see if there's finally some concrete evidence of a Pentax FF. If it doesn't happen, I guess I'll move on (somewhat reluctantly) to a Nikon D600 or D800.

Coming from film originally, I've always considered APS-C an interim format until FF became more economically viable. In fact many manufacturers said the same thing when APS-C was introduced. I guess if APS-C is all you've ever used, you might feel differently? Anyway with the new Nikon D600 (and less so with Sony's new SLT effort), I think affordable FF will finally start to be a reality and gradually move down to lower model DSLRs.

Personally I think APS-C will eventually become the domain of the mirrorless and real DSLRs will be FF except for Sony with it's hybrid SLT cameras. However that's a few years away.

If Pentax misses the FF boat, there's every chance it will become increasingly marginalized.

[audiobomber]

Here in Costa Rica there's a Pentax authorized dealer. They have just announced the K30 (for $880 plus tax, and with the 18-135 $1220 plus tax).

I don't mean dealers, I mean distributors like Pentax Canada. Lots of holes in this map:

Global Site | PENTAX RICOH IMAGING

[Winder]

Once again you failed to answer my question about the Nikon F mount. Your theory would be more believable if Nikon were sucking wind. Those same 3rd party lens makers make plenty of lenses for Nikon. The issue with Pentax for most 3rd party makers is the fact that Pentax has been about 5% of the dSLR market for the past decade. Plus, they didn't work with the 3rd party guys under Hoya and actually derailed Tokina releasing lenses with K-mount. There is absolutely know reason for a new Pentax mount for Pentax dSLR. Sony is going to screw up if they aren't careful. People will endup with a mount of the year that will become paper weights in 3 to 5.

edit: Sony dSLR including the A99 ff are using the alpha mount.

Sony Alpha DSLR Cameras | Digital SLR a Series Camera | Sony Store USA

What question about Nikon did I fail to answer. In the previous post you only stated that:

The Alpha mount isn't dead and you have been talking about the mounts. Again, Nikon has been with their mount for over 10 years longer than Pentax has been with the K-mount. I won't go as far as to say the K-mount has saved Pentax, but had they dumped it I wouldn't be with them.

There is no question here. What Nikon can and can't do has nothing to do with Pentax. The companies are at two very different levels.

Can you post a link to where Hoya "derailed Tokina releasing lenses with K-mount." Something other than speculation.

Sony is already screwing up. There are a lot of former Minolta users who have left. When I was looking at switching from my 5D original to an A900 I spent a lot of time on the Alpha Mount World and Dyxum forums. SLT has lost a lot of Minolta users. Unlike Pentax users who hold out hope that Pentax will release the camera they want, Minolta users know that Sony is going in a different direction. The A900 was the last camera to carry on the Minolta line. Sony now just makes bodies and lenses that are compatible with the old Minolta.

I'm not saying Pentax should abandon K-mount. I'm saying that if they want to compete in the EVIL market they will need a new mount and EVIL is going to be a big market. Olympus had less market share than Pentax prior to moving to M4/3. Fuji had zero market share, and now stands to pass Pentax in a very short time. The one market that is wide open is FF EVIL. No Canon. No Nikon.

I have read a dozen articles lately comparing the Fuji XP-1, Sony NEX-7, & the OM-D. Not a single one of them mentions the Pentax K-01. Why? It was released at the same time as the Fuji and the OM-D. The K-01 has more lenses than any of those three. Actually there are more lenses for the K-01 than those other 3 combined. Is that not worth anything? It is worth something to a small percentage of the 5% of the people in the world who use Pentax. Using K-mount on an EVIL is a compromise at best that makes a very small group of people happy, but wont sell enough cameras to ever matter.

K-mount has value and it has a lot more potential value with a FF DSLR, but Pentax needs a 4th mount to support EVIL and appeal to new customers. Pentax needs new customers. New customers don't care about K-mount. They are not invested.

[Blue]

What question about Nikon did I fail to answer. In the previous post you only stated that:

There is no question here. What Nikon can and can't do has nothing to do with Pentax. The companies are at two very different levels.

Can you post a link to where Hoya "derailed Tokina releasing lenses with K-mount." Something other than speculation.

Sony is already screwing up. There are a lot of former Minolta users who have left. When I was looking at switching from my 5D original to an A900 I spent a lot of time on the Alpha Mount World and Dyxum forums. SLT has lost a lot of Minolta users. Unlike Pentax users who hold out hope that Pentax will release the camera they want, Minolta users know that Sony is going in a different direction. The A900 was the last camera to carry on the Minolta line. Sony now just makes bodies and lenses that are compatible with the old Minolta.

I'm not saying Pentax should abandon K-mount. I'm saying that if they want to compete in the EVIL market they will need a new mount and EVIL is going to be a big market. Olympus had less market share than Pentax prior to moving to M4/3. Fuji had zero market share, and now stands to pass Pentax in a very short time. The one market that is wide open is FF EVIL. No Canon. No Nikon.

I have read a dozen articles lately comparing the Fuji XP-1, Sony NEX-7, & the OM-D. Not a single one of them mentions the Pentax K-01. Why? It was released at the same time as the Fuji and the OM-D. The K-01 has more lenses than any of those three. Actually there are more lenses for the K-01 than those other 3 combined. Is that not worth anything? It is worth something to a small percentage of the 5% of the people in the world who use Pentax. Using K-mount on an EVIL is a compromise at best that makes a very small group of people happy, but wont sell enough cameras to ever matter.

K-mount has value and it has a lot more potential value with a FF DSLR, but Pentax needs a 4th mount to support EVIL and appeal to new customers. Pentax needs new customers. New customers don't care about K-mount. They are not invested.

You were coming across like you were campaigning for the replacement of the K-mount. The whole point with Nikon which you ignored up until this post is the fact that they have been using the same mount on their SLR's 16 years longer than Pentax has with the K-mount. Plus, Nikon has the small camera that is in the same arena as the Q. 4 mounts is a bit much for a company with 5% of the market. m4/3 is just starting to have a lens line up even though multiple companies use the mount. As far as the K-01 goes, it probably just got overlooked or ignored which tends to happen. As far as FF evil goes, Pentax hasn't even committed to full frame.