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09-20-2012, 03:42 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
So when you unite 2 underperforming entities, all of a sudden you get a world beater??
I'm hoping we get synergy.

09-20-2012, 03:48 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by 7samurai Quote
I'm hoping we get synergy.
hahahah oh yes.. I'm sure we'll get synergistic value added mumbo jumbo.
09-20-2012, 03:54 PM   #63
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How in the world is there question as to whether or not there is room between the K-5 and the 645D? There's tons of room. You could fit two more lines in there. Super-pro aps-c and FF. In fact, I think the gap between the two is becoming other brands biggest sellers. The 5DmkIII's and the D800's are selling like crazy. There's so much money to be made in between the K-5 and the 645D.

And while I'm sure the K-5IIs is an incredibly nice camera, I don't think Pentax sees the severity of the problem that it has the same video features as the K-5, which were already outdated and underwhelming when it came out 2 years ago. And sure, lots of people don't care one tick about video. But LOTS of people do, especially the higher end users they want to attract if they're ever going to support a higher end line. It's a catch 22...
09-20-2012, 04:39 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Ah, but when was your 16-50 manufactured? 2012 or later? How do you know?

Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm glad you love the brand. I'm a big fan too but am starting to be frustrated because of the advancements in my son's soccer abilities and my K-5 missing the focus way too much. I want to actually ENJOY using my expensive camera. When I go out to shoot astrophotography its a pleasure, even without the O-GPS1. When I do macro, its fun and I enjoy the K-5 a lot. When I slap the 18-250 on there and am a tourist, it's great. When I use the 35/2.4 and sit at the bottom of a lighthouse at night and do bulb shots, wonderful fun. When I go out on the field and try to use my K-5 to capture images of something that is actually really, really, important to me - frustration. I shot sports in high school and college, I know its not as easy - really. But the % of keepers is so low, despite the framing and lighting being good, that it's really beginning to bug me.
You may wish to consider the Sigma 70-200 F/2.8 if you haven't done so. The HSM makes it a lens with faster autofocus than DA lenses that I have used from Pentax.

09-20-2012, 05:05 PM - 2 Likes   #65
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With the lack of compelling new products, Pentax is now firmly confined to a has been backwater brand. Unfortunately the only thing going for Pentax is because it is cheap, nothing more. This obviously fits perfectly to the aging demographic of it's users who for the most part want the best features but are financially challenged. There is simply no upgrade path upwards towards FF as other brands have been offering for so many years. This much is the hard reality. Waiting to 2013 or 2014 to unveil a FF camera is too little and too late to hold back those who want FF.

The slew of cheaper FF cameras have fractured the distinction between APS-C and FF and Pentax has NOTHING to even match this. IF you don't even have a first generation FF camera to show NOW, much less be available on sale, how in the world can Ricoh even conjure up a cheap and affordable FF in the short term? It isn't easy to scale up a K-5 to create a competitive FF. When you have nothing to show not even a prototype or proof of concept, it is ludicrous to believe that you can roll out a world beating FF product down the road, especially when Canikon have a tremendous headstart.

And the problem is the current Pentax user base don't have the capacity or capability to spend on a FF camera system. Just look at the number of Pentax users who bought the K-5 at the end of the model life, most were't prepared to pay for it until it was massively discounted. Those who do want and can afford FF have already jumped ship or will do when the more affordable Canikon FFs hit the shops. There is going to be a modest take-up for Pentax's new camera and gear offerings because they are behind the curve in delivering what the consumer wants. The K-5 II and K-5 IIs should have been showcased one year ago. They would have created much attention then, but now they are overshadowed as a company and have lost the plot big time.
09-20-2012, 05:25 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
. . . Pentax is now firmly confined to a has been backwater brand . . . cheap, nothing more . . . aging demographic of it's users . . . financially challenged . . . the current Pentax user base don't have the capacity or capability to spend on a FF camera system . . . they are overshadowed as a company and have lost the plot big time.
LOL why u troll us?
09-20-2012, 06:16 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@LaurenOE // @Docrwm (and other passionate, long-term Pentax users on this and other threads:

Throughout my life I have had, every once in a while, intuitions. I can't explain them and any rational person (I include my self in that group) would and should discount them as a valid input for making a business decision. But when I have an intuition I am rarely wriong.

I first understood and used this strange phenomenon in High School and College athletics. Two or three times each game I would simply know where to be to make a play happen, though almost always going there was contrary to all coaching and play plans. I got yelled at a lot - but I made tackles and interceptions (football) and stole passes and scored goals (lacrosse) often enough that coaches learned to tolerate my infrequent weirdness.

I have had intuitions about companies, markets and people. I make mistakes when I seek insights. I am right when I accept unexpected insight and have the confidence to act on it.

I have an intuition. Ricoh gets it.

I think Ned retired voluntarily because he is the right age and he senses change is on the wind. I think John Carlson won't retire voluntarily. John is the wrong age and he doesn't seem to have the sense.

I think Noboru Akahane will not tolerate the same old same old at PRIAC and will move rapidly to bring capital, energy and change to the US market.

I think James Malcolm will not suffer flacid marketing efforts (his Sony background) bad business organization (his Ricoh background) and incomplete product knowledge (he's scary smart) for long - perhpas not more than weeks.

I beleive both men are intimately familiar with Minimum Assured Pricing - and the USA pricing tug-of-war overseen by Ned and JC.

I believe every Denver employee will be personally interviewd and evaluated by James Malcolm. I believe every metric of PRIAC will be measured and scored. Change will happen faster than we think possible.

I believe every outside contractor will have their Service-Level-Agreement reviewed and scored. Some will be terminated immediately and replaced by in-house staff. Some will be terminated later, and be replaced by in-house staff. A few might actually survive, but only if they can perform better than in-house, trained, loyal, effective full-time team employees.

I have an intuition that the big story of next year and the year after and the one after that won't be a neat Sony pocket cam or Oly throw-back cam. It will be a surprisingly competitive, muscular and aggressive Pentax that brings more than a cutting-edge camera like the K10D K7 K5 every few years. It will be a story about a company that knocks the competiton back again and again and again and just plain slaps and stings and bullies its way back into a respectable position.

It will be a story about a company that has a definite, different identity for discerning, iconoclastic users - one that surprises us when people come up to us and say, "Wow! A Pentax!! Can I hold that?" One where the "Are we really that rare?" thread either disappears or goes to 10,000 posts because we aren't any more.

I think Pentax sneers at Canon. I think Pentax wants to be Nikon.

I know. I know. You can't make a business decision on an intuition.

Except you can.

I have an intuition that if Pentax was a stock you would want to buy at the turn up from the bottom - IOW right about now.
Great post Monochrome! And as somewhat frustrated as I am with the K-5II launch, I think I pretty much agree with you. The only reasons that I'm even frustrated with the K-5II, which by almost all account is a great camera, is that it's soooooo close to being my absolutely perfect dream camera. It's so close to being everything I want, all in one package. It's still closer than anything else anyone makes, but without the video features being competitive with other brands, or even their own entry level camera, it's just hurts me. Video is now almost 50% of my job and an editorial photographer, and I desperately want the K-5 to be my do-it-all wonder machine. And I would have thought surely if they were going to update it, they would address those. Even when it came out, the video specs were behind the times, and very limiting for any kind of legitimate professional work. The K-5 was sooo close to perfection the first time around; all it needed was better AF and more video functionality. Butto see it get updated, and not even bring the video specs up to par with their entry level camera, honestly baffles me in ways I can't explain. I still love Pentax, and have no desire to go anywhere else. But it's a frustrating release; not so much because it isn't a great camera (it definitely is, especially for people who don't care about video), but because it was soooo close to being my perfect, ideal dream camera the first time around, and after an update, it still isn't.

But.

I agree with everything you've said. And I think Pentax is going to be slaying some major camera market soon. I have a suspicion that the only reason we're seeing a bit of a lackluster releases bunch right now is because Pentax/Ricoh is pouring everything it's got into something that is going to blow some minds in the near future.

Plus we did get a lot. Better AF? That has been a thorn in Pentax's side forever. If they can't now be competitive with other brands, that will remove one of the biggest black marks on their reputation, and one of the big reasons that people claim for going somewhere else.

I believe in you Pentax. Please don't let me down!
09-20-2012, 06:51 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
but without the video features being competitive with other brands, or even their own entry level camera
I don't have the technical chops to KNOW this but I'd bet the Prime-M processor can't do still images the way the Prime-II processor can - and Hoya didn't invest money in the crossover for Prime-M.

For all its faults my K-01 can do some things extremely well.

09-20-2012, 09:18 PM   #69
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Lordy, I just hope their cameras are better than their copy machines. I want to murder the one at work daily. I can just see it. A camera that tells me "focusing will start in 1 minute".
09-20-2012, 10:16 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
Lordy, I just hope their cameras are better than their copy machines. I want to murder the one at work daily. I can just see it. A camera that tells me "focusing will start in 1 minute".

LOL.... everyone wants to kill their copy machines, no matter what brand it is actually. There is always someone stupid enough in a company that screw up that copy machine....
09-20-2012, 10:35 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by loveisageless Quote
Lordy, I just hope their cameras are better than their copy machines. I want to murder the one at work daily. I can just see it. A camera that tells me "focusing will start in 1 minute".

We have Xerox at work. The biggest load of garbage ever made. And xerox don't allow us to have waste toner cartridges in stock. So from time to time we go a week without a copier/printer (this is a work station pro). Its absolute rubbish.
09-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #72
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Most companies don't buy a large enough copier for the service duty cycle they need (since the duty cycle doubles every 5 years, no matter what). We used Xerox for years, 300,000 imprints a month, collating and stapling, booklet copying, up to 11x17 2-sided - and rarely had a down day. Now we have some massive Ricoh machine and the up time is the same - always up. You have to match the tool to the task.

OTOH we just replaced the Lexmark printers with smaller HP. They're slow when they're up and they're slower when they're down, which seems to be half-day each week.
09-21-2012, 01:07 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I don't have the technical chops to KNOW this but I'd bet the Prime-M processor can't do still images the way the Prime-II processor can - and Hoya didn't invest money in the crossover for Prime-M.

For all its faults my K-01 can do some things extremely well.
But why in the world would they not have put the Prime-M into the K-5II and make it a beast with all the video functionality and faster procession of the K-01? That's what I don't get. If you're going to update something, go all the way with it.
09-21-2012, 01:10 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
But why in the world would they not have put the Prime-M into the K-5II and make it a beast with all the video functionality and faster procession of the K-01? That's what I don't get. If you're going to update something, go all the way with it.
They've said that it is set up/optimized for a 12-bit processor and it would take a LOT to turn it into 14-bit process for the K-5.

Last edited by Docrwm; 09-21-2012 at 01:20 PM.
09-21-2012, 01:11 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
They've said that it [Edit monochrome: the PRIME-M processor] is set up as a 12-bit processor and it would take a LOT to turn it into 14-bit process for the K-5.
Thank you!!
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