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09-20-2012, 07:20 AM   #1
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Tilt-Shift/Panorama solution for K-mount found at Photokina

Hi everybody,

I've just registered to forward something that might be of interest to a lot of people on this Forum, and I apologize in advance for bypassing the "introduce yourself" first, which I'll do shortly. ( I've been reading from this site for the last 2 years...)

Nick Devlin, from Luminous Landscape, is also at Photokina, and he came across the booth of Shenhao (Shanghai Shenhao Professional Camera Company.... slow server bye the way)

They do Large Fomat view cameras, but came out with adaptor back plates with DSLR mounts, in Pentax K-mount, Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad, PhaseOne, etc. Now, just need to
find out if a Pentax 645 mount is in the works. This could mean having the possibility of amazing flexibility for Tilt-Shift... you be the judge....

Here's the
of Stephen Zhang, their export manager with a brief demonstration.

Thank you

09-20-2012, 08:20 AM   #2
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Nice stuff for view-camera owners!
09-20-2012, 09:10 AM   #3
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The4 disadvantage is that with the standard bellows you cannot go much wider than a 90mm lens. The bag bellows lets you go down I think it is to 47mm which is a fairly expensive lens. I am thinking of selling my bag bellows as I do not use that much movement with my 90mm to justify keeping it especially as it does not fit into my bag. I have shot medium format film on my Shen Hao but got those backs prior to obtaining my Hasselblad. I would think for most people it would be less expensive to purchase the Zeiss lens then a 4X5 and lenses plus the adapter back. But then again if you went the Shen Hao route you could also shoot 4X5 black and white film
09-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #4
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Correcting myself as it was a Schneider shift tilt not Ziess.

09-21-2012, 03:45 AM   #5
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Shenhao looks like Toyo even the naming is just a bad copy of Toyo names. I think they are lucky that customs did not close their booth at photokina - things like this happened before not only at photokina.
Very questionable.

4x5 lenses will not resolve the detail required by digital sensors. Even old medium format lenses will not do. There is no cheap solution to tilt and shift. You still need to focus the lens somehow. If you want tilt/shift get a tilt/shift camera. If you want to play get a Canon/Nikon or a Schneider lens. Samyang showed something inexpensive as well...
09-21-2012, 07:43 AM   #6
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Dear zapp,

bad copy of Toyo

You may be right about them, but I don't know them personally, so I can't judge them. What is interesting here is their "DSLR adapter plates". I've not seen any other company that does that product. You could put that plate on any 4x5 camera of your choice that you find used on e-bay, be it Cambo, Toyo, etc. Now, combine the tilt-shift of the camera with the panoramic movements of the adapter plate, and you get amazing possibilities. That is the main point of interest to the product.

You still need to focus the lens somehow

The fact that a DSLR is attached to the back plate does not change how you normally focus a large format camera. It could actually be easier to focus through the view finder then with a magnifier loupe on the plate glass. Focus can easily be verified on the screen of the DSLR also....

Even old medium format lenses will not do

Please verify with the members on the "medium format" threads. Most " old " 645 and 67 lens are very good, a few are exceptional, and some are very poor. Have a look in the lens data base....and also check "old" Mamiya, Hasselblad, etc. lens doing great on 40 to 80Mpix Digital backs.....Pentax lenses have nothing to envy other manufacturers....

Hoping this information will be helpful in clarifying those points...

Best wishes to you and have a great day...

Normand
09-21-2012, 07:58 AM   #7
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You are right, there are different was of wasting your money. This is one of them.

I don't care about the opinion of other people regarding old glass. I use a 56 MP medium format back with high-end glass and I can see the difference whenever I use the same back with any other old or up to date glass from Zeiss, Hasselblad, Mamiya,...you name it and I can see a degradation in quality. Old wide angle lenses are with extremely few exceptions no match for current high-end glass - actually I have trouble thinking of an exception. Some normal and tele lenses are ok. People should work with the real product before debating about the advantages of funny t/s solutions on 4x5 cameras and the applicability of old lenses on digital cameras.
09-21-2012, 08:55 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by zapp Quote
Shenhao looks like Toyo even the naming is just a bad copy of Toyo names. I think they are lucky that customs did not close their booth at photokina - things like this happened before not only at photokina.
Very questionable.

4x5 lenses will not resolve the detail required by digital sensors. Even old medium format lenses will not do. There is no cheap solution to tilt and shift. You still need to focus the lens somehow. If you want tilt/shift get a tilt/shift camera. If you want to play get a Canon/Nikon or a Schneider lens. Samyang showed something inexpensive as well...
Perhaps I am not as knowledgeable as you are but all the Shen Hao models I have seen are field cameras and all the Toyos are monorails. It is true the company has relied on other designs like Chamoiux, Philips or Canham or even Ebony the company has been in business for well over a decade and has not once been charged (that I know of) with patent violations and there products are sold in the US, Europe Canada as well as Asia. Which field camera is totally different from others? I see similarities even with 70 year old field cameras and the current models.

Your opinion or experience with older medium format lenses seems to be on contradiction with others and I thought there were a couple of the Zeiss formulas that have not really changed at all over the decades. Guess some of it depends on what you mean by older for example are CF lenses older or modern?

Do agree that it is not a good solution for a quality digital image, especially with either FF or cropped sensor ones. Would not get one myself as the solutions you referred to would be superior and if you did not already have the view camera, no more expensive or even cheaper.

09-21-2012, 09:22 AM   #9
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You are right too, zapp

I understand perfectly that you reached that point of thriving for the best possible IQ, DR, etc. to achieve the best quality product that you can offer...excellent. I'm aiming for the same goal....within my budgetary means. I was considering buying/leasing a 40MP Phase back when Pentax came out with the 645D. Almost two years later, I bought the 645D instead. My goal is the same as yours, but I need to do it with the cost in mind. I sure raise my hat to you, to have worked very hard to get to where you are...working with your dream equipment. I'm sure your works bring a satisfying smile on your face when the client's needs are met.

I would'nt try to compare my shots with an IQ40 back. I already know that the back gives out more than the 645D. But, and it's a big but, I get way more closer to MF film for tonality and depth with the 645D than with any small format DSLR, and that is with "old P645 and P67 lenses. I work with what I have and what is available. Do I whish I could work with an IQ80? Oh yes.....but I'm still very satisfied with the many more attributes of the 645D.

I have worked with large format and I believe this product is not as far fetched as you imply.....

As for this thread....the goal was to inform of a "possible" solution to many's wishes for tilt-shift solutions for K-mount. It's not ideal but still better than nothing. The Schneider shift tilt that redrockcoulee mentions above is probably best but quite expensive. Don't forget the "crop factor" that such a set-up provides too.

I'll say that there are two types of people also....those who try new things and those that wait to see what the first find out when trying. Where would we be without daring people that jump in to try new products and give us their reviews..? Where is you sense of adventure?
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