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09-23-2012, 04:37 PM   #61
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The subtitles are up, FYI, and the full transcript & commentary will be available on our homepage on Thursday at 6am central.


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09-23-2012, 05:04 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'd say it's better to plan and execute it carefully, than to rush out something on the market.
I agree. My hope would be that Ricoh pulls a Canon move and makes K mount go the way of the FD mount, but this is very unlikely to be within their means.
09-23-2012, 05:40 PM - 12 Likes   #63
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Firstly - thank you Adam and team for a lot of time and effort in the interview and then putting the video together, I appreciate your effort, and it is very helpful to see and hear the responses from the Pentax Ricoh representatives.

I read a few camera forums and commentators, and if you were to believe what is written on internet forums then every camera manufacturer is doomed, missing the market, has irretrievable holes in their product line, and will naturally fail in a few years.

The Nikon guys worry and fret about the focus problems on the D800, the lack of a top end replacement APS-C camera, lack of communication from Nikon, lack of diversification, losing market share, not implementing a mirrorless camera strategy well, missing tech shifts, lack of decent new lenses, too slow to provide lenses, and being too locked into a shrinking compact camera market.

The Canon guys worry and fret about the Canon Full Frame strategy, that Nikon has a much better camera in the D800, the holes in the mirrorless strategy, missing changes in technology, the emphasis on video and not stills and on it goes.

The Leica guys worry and fret about the new M, lack of direction, dilution of the brand, not enough people buying into the brand, the cost of lenses, lack of hybrid viewfinders, that Fuji is eating up their market at less than half the cost, that the X2 didn't progress far enough, that the EVF (rebranded from Olympus) isn't as state of the art as Sony.....and on it goes.

What Pentax guys worry and fret about is well demonstrated in this thread - and if it all sounds reasonably similar to the concerns of forums for other camera makers then that is because it is. Let us summarize these concerns:

The Pentax guys worry and fret about no full frame camera option, lack of sensor update to current state of the art APS-C, lack of feature x, y, or z that some opposition camera has, slow flash syncing, slow adoption of cutting edge technology, lack of new full frame lenses, lack of new limited lenses, lack of fast lenses, lack of waterproof lenses that are limited and fast, that Pentax is too slow to iterate, that the Pentax mirrorless strategy (K-01 and Q) isn't mainstream and doesn't match the m4/3 cameras or Sony NEX, that autofocus silent motor lenses still have problems, that the Pentax MF camera hasn't been updated recently - and so it goes on.

What is apparent from this quick analysis is that every camera system has a range of issues, misses, perceived problems, lack of response to trends, lack of lenses etc. For each camera system those committed to that system know the intimate details of the problems, and the internet and forums such as this magnify those issues.

I chose to buy into the Pentax system with no legacy lenses and a choice of all manufacturers back in March of this year - I purchased a K-5 - and I have been very happy with the performance on the camera and associated lenses. I had selection criteria that included image quality, small size, water proof, interchangeable lens, small lenses (for travel), optical finder, legacy lenses (inexpensive and fun to use), high quality lenses, minimum APS-C

The reasons I chose Pentax over Nikon, Canon, Leica, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji, Sony or Ricoh were as follows:

APS-C for mix of image quality, image size, dynamic range etc - ruled out Olympus and Panasonic m4/3
Water Resistant for Travel - ruled out Leica M, Ricoh, Fuji, Nikon D7000, Canon 7D
Small size/weight - ruled out Canon and Nikon full frame cameras, Canon 7D
High APS-C Image Quality - basically Pentax K-5, Canon 7D, Nikon D7000 and Fuji X-Pro 1 fitted criteria
Optical Finder - ruled out most mirror less
Small lenses - Pentax limited lenses rule the roost here (and m4/3 but IQ, Optical Finder and WR dropped them)
Legacy Lenses - Pentax, Nikon and Leica have extensive backwards compatibility

Having worked through this type of evaluation grid I ended up seriously considering the Nikon D7000, Pentax K-5, Fuji X-Pro 1 and Leica M9.

The Fuji got dropped for a whole number of reasons, including lack of WR, AF speed issues, lack of legacy lenses etc. Leica for cost, no AF, lack of WR.

Pentax K-5 verses Nikon D7000 - there are plenty of comparison reviews, and I have read a many of them - in the end I think the K-5 is the better camera - WR, small lenses, better design, menu and layout (and yes I have previously owned a Nikon D200 DSLR).

The point of this long post - for all it's perceived faults, product line holes, lack of development, lens development etc etc - Pentax still makes very good and competitive camera's, it still has a wide range of very good lenses, there are excellent third party lenses available, and all in all Pentax offers a good mix and range.

There is now no such thing as certainty in forward product roadmap - stop wishing for it

If you want the latest and greatest in full frame DSLR then go and buy the Nikon D800 - I just hope you don't get one of the 10,000's that have the LH focusing problem (factory set it seems) - which will then drive you nuts for months.

Just be advised that within the next 12 months someone will produce something different or better and then the angst will start again.

My suggestion to myself and everyone else is when you are sure that you have shot all the pictures you ever can, at the maximum quality / best composition you can, using the camera's features to their maximum then it might be time to consider a new camera.

The issue is seldom with the camera and lenses, and no amount of new gear is ever going to fix that.

Ross
09-23-2012, 07:30 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
I will post this here and nowhere else, so I hope you guys don't miss it. The Pentax reps and I did talk a little after the interview, and I did get the impression that they were working on an FF system. It really does seem inevitable at this point.
While I'm no FF wisher, I'm a happy camper with this I also wish they have more solid plans for the GXR. It's the only one of its kind, and definitely is versatile.

09-23-2012, 10:34 PM   #65
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Okay, I'll bite

Assuming as you are inferring that you know Japanese well, what was the real intent of the mans words? What was missed in the translation?

Thanks


QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
But I have to tell you that the translator was making up some stuff as he went along. I felt that he did a lousy job in certain sections of it, while he did ok in others. You ought to take me along next time.
09-24-2012, 12:30 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
I agree. My hope would be that Ricoh pulls a Canon move and makes K mount go the way of the FD mount, but this is very unlikely to be within their means.
Why would you hope for that? For what reasons would Pentax alienate it's entire K-mount userbase, losing every bit of market share and the associated revenue and having to fight for many years of heavy losses in order to recover - just to reach the point they are now?
09-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #67
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Thanks, NZ_Ross, for your well- thought out comments. As a member of the Leica User's Forum, I can confirm that there is just as much angst among its members' postings as here. And back when I had a Canon, the same was true there.

I had a Canon FF - a 5D and several L lenses. Great image quality. But hiking through the Sinai desert for a few hours with a full load of kit made me realise that great IQ can come at a (literally) heavy price. And being taken for a pro and asked to do something I wasn't ready for at the drop of a hat didn't please me either.

So now I've got a K-5 and several compact lenses. I can get the lot in a bum bag, it weighs about 2.5 kilos, the camera is weather-proof, and it doesn't look professional/expensive.

Enjoy the advantages the Pentax gives you. If you really want FF, be prepared to give some up!

Peter
09-24-2012, 08:38 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
For what reasons would Pentax alienate it's entire K-mount userbase, losing every bit of market share and the associated revenue and having to fight for many years of heavy losses in order to recover - just to reach the point they are now?
For the same reason that Canon alienated their FD mount base - to put out a modern electronic mount and build a product line that topped Nikon and made them #1. Canon had a bigger market share and took a larger risk at that time. Right now, the Pentax brand is nowhere - it's the perfect time for a big change.

09-24-2012, 08:55 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
For the same reason that Canon alienated their FD mount base - to put out a modern electronic mount and build a product line that topped Nikon and made them #1. Canon had a bigger market share and took a larger risk at that time. Right now, the Pentax brand is nowhere - it's the perfect time for a big change.
I don't think we will see it in SLRs, but I think we will see it for an EVIL body. The biggest advantage of an EVIL system is size, and the existing K-mount negates any real advantage. Legacy lenses designed for PDAF don't function well with CDAF cameras. I don't think we will see a K-01 replacement.

Hopefully Pentax pulls a Fuji and introduces a FF EVIL body and 3 quality primes with a modern lens mount.
09-24-2012, 09:04 AM   #70
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Please be more specific. Exactly which feature is missing from the K-mount and can't be added to it?
Canon did it for specific reasons, it was a big risk taken in very different market conditions; your point in mentioning them is...? By the way, Nikon are doing just fine

You're right, it's indeed the perfect time for a big change; however, that change should be moving forward with the K-mount (I'm not necessarily talking about the so-called "FF").

Winder: who cares about MILCs?
09-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #71
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Mmm the K-01 concept might evolve into a Video optimized K-Mount cam.

As for the change of mount, it is BS. The little number of users left with Pentax stay because of the mount.
09-24-2012, 09:17 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Winder: who cares about MILCs?
Probably companies that want to make money and be financially successful...... Something Pentax has obviously had a lot of trouble with. In case you missed the news MILCs are taking a big chunk of the market. People who previously were upgrading to a K-x or other entry level DSLR and now picking up NEX or M4/3. Professionals who were carrying the Canon G series are picking up MILCs instead. MILC are right in the middle of the market and cameras that currently cost 2x what the K-5 is going for (XP-1) are selling more units than the K-5..... with no legacy lens support.
09-24-2012, 09:20 AM   #73
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Afaik Canon and Nikon are making money. In the same time, MILCs are limited in what they can offer, and cannot replace a nice DSLR; so... who cares about MILCs?
09-24-2012, 10:12 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
People who previously were upgrading to a K-x or other entry level DSLR and now picking up NEX or M4/3. Professionals who were carrying the Canon G series are picking up MILCs instead.
Depends on which market, maybe. In some, MILCs prevail, in others, DSLRs still take the cake. I've yet to see an updated 2012 survey to know if MILCs have eaten most of DSLR market share.
09-24-2012, 10:37 AM   #75
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NZ_ Ross,

Thanks for your lenghty post. It was informative and I think you nailed it on the head. They all have their problems and Pentax does have some great benefits for their line of photography. It is possible to trade one headache for another. I am excited to see the pictures and reviews from the K-5 II when available. That is probably my next camera. I do have to say the new Nikon D600 looks really awesome.

Racerdew
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