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Winder · 09-23-2012, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by bobell69

Does anyone know how long it takes to design a lens from beginning to production? Just wondering if a lens design is the result of many months of design work by a team or an individual. I see Pentax currenty developing one or two lenses a year in the K mount, and about one every 18 months or so in the 645 mount. Is it reasonable to assume that if focused on one mount only that a ramp up could deliver three to five or more quality K mount lenses in a year?

See as X-mount is less than a year old and companies are already producing lenses for it I don't think i takes too long. I would be surprised if Zeiss would dedicate resources to develop glass for the X-mount without first seeing the markets reaction to it. I would like to think the reason we have not seen any desirable glass from Pentax is because they are working on FF glass.

Sigma did an interview a few years ago where they talked about how computer models have radically reduced development time for lenses and really improved the IQ of glass. Sigma has made huge strides in IQ over the past few years with lenses like the 50mm and 85mm. Newer glass like Fluorite, and ULD glass have made it easier to achieve really good IQ. The newer coating also make design easier.

Can people confirm that the FA 31mm, 43mm, & 77mm were missing from the show and from the literature that was handed out? The rumor is going around that those lenses were not on display.

JerryLime · 09-23-2012, 09:55 AM

Source from Taiwan said Mr. Hirakawa Jun works for a third-party lenses manufacturer. It means he cannot come back to Pentax in a near future.

Docrwm · 09-23-2012, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by JerryLime

Source from Taiwan said Mr. Hirakawa Jun works for a third-party lenses manufacturer. It meas he cannot come back to Pentax in a near future.

Reference please? Link perhaps?

Winder · 09-23-2012, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Reference please? Link perhaps?

People on the DPR Sigma forums claimed he had gone to work for Sigma, but that has been month and months ago.

Maybe that's why Sigma isn't releasing any K-mount glass. As a condition of his employment no lenses he designs will be released in K-mount.... (Sarcasm)

Docrwm · 09-23-2012, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by Winder

People on the DPR Sigma forums claimed he had gone to work for Sigma, but that has been month and months ago.

Maybe that's why Sigma isn't releasing any K-mount glass. As a condition of his employment no lenses he designs will be released in K-mount.... (Sarcasm)

Searched DPR and no such references or comments were found. Perhaps you can provide a link to something I missed?

Winder · 09-23-2012, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Searched DPR and no such references or comments were found. Perhaps you can provide a link to something I missed?

I will look and see what I can find. I was searching the Sigma forum for Sigma 85mm information back before it was released for Pentax. Or I Googled it and I was linked to DPR Sigma. Not saying it is true.... just that a couple of people were talking about it.

Docrwm · 09-23-2012, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Winder

I will look and see what I can find. I was searching the Sigma forum for Sigma 85mm information back before it was released for Pentax. Or I Googled it and I was linked to DPR Sigma. Not saying it is true.... just that a couple of people were talking about it.

I understand, it may have been as a point of comparison because he designed (as I recall) the FA*85 which is much emulated.

**Fontan** · 09-23-2012, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Do you have any verification of this? Or any Canon lenses he worked on?

Not sure if it can be substantiated on the internet, but I read few years ago on Nikkei Shinbun while I was back in Japan. The article came out about a year or so prior to Ricoh's acquisition. The departure was thought to be "amicable" according to the article. He was also hired by Canon as a advisory staff - whatever that means. I recall there were several bloggers in Japan talking about his as well, and this I am sure you can look it up although you may have to rely on stellar Google translation. Here is one of them.

2011??PENTAX

**monochrome** · 09-23-2012, 12:24 PM - **1 Like**

FWIW, there's more to a final product on the shelf than just design. Parts must be sourced. Assemblers must be trained. Production must be scheduled. Capital must be allocated to stored inventory.

When a company has limited capital, cash flow, sales volume, production capacity, manufacturing employees and must compete with voracious demand from Nikon and Sony - sometimes they just get shut out.

Add the effect of natural disasters recently, weak global economy, currency fluctuations, Basel III banking regulations (only the highest quality loans are made) and it might just be that Pentax simply can't produce what it wants to produce for reasons other than engineers or ideas.

For instance, has anyone ever tried to get a new product distribution in a B&M camera store without offering merchant credit? Not likely in today's economy.

Adam · 09-23-2012, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Docrwm

Adam, Any chance of following up on this and finding out if it is true? Rehiring Mr. Hirakawa Jun shouldn't be a corporate secret, and it would really ignite some positive energy (which is sorely lacking right now) toward Pentax-Ricoh if they confirmed this rumor.

It may be something worth asking at the next interview!

Ponq · 03-13-2013, 07:00 AM

Hi, there.
So sorry for my late post.
I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039.
This was issued by Tamron.
This means......

Ponq · 03-13-2013, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by LFLee

Hirakawa Jun, the brilliant lens designer responsible for FA 85mm, FA 43, 77 ltd (and partial 31mm ltd) and several other FA* lenses (Hirakawa Jun - Camerapedia) rumor to be back with Pentax/Ricoh.

He was "retired" when Hoya took over Pentax. If this is true, this is really an exciting news for Pentaxian -- Maybe he was back to design FF lenses?

See this from a Taiwan Pentax forum. Source of news: 2??,?????.-PFC - Pentax Fans Club

A really good news than all the recent announcements. Could he be involve in the limited zoom design?

So sorry for my late post.

It seems that Hirakawa-san is working for Tamron now.
I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039.
This was issued by Tamron.
It means .....

Ponq · 03-13-2013, 07:25 AM

Here is a screenshot of patent search.

normhead · 03-13-2013, 07:31 AM

Ha, it means Tamron's already great lenses are about to get even better.

NickLarsson · 03-13-2013, 07:33 AM

Originally posted by Ponq

So sorry for my late post.

It seems that Hirakawa-san is working for Tamron now.
I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039.
This was issued by Tamron.
It means .....

Do you know for which lens is this patent ?

09-23-2012, 09:55 AM	#32
JerryLime Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: PA Posts: 43	Source from Taiwan said Mr. Hirakawa Jun works for a third-party lenses manufacturer. It means he cannot come back to Pentax in a near future. Last edited by JerryLime; 09-23-2012 at 10:00 AM.

09-23-2012, 02:18 PM	#40
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,608	Originally posted by Docrwm Adam, Any chance of following up on this and finding out if it is true? Rehiring Mr. Hirakawa Jun shouldn't be a corporate secret, and it would really ignite some positive energy (which is sorely lacking right now) toward Pentax-Ricoh if they confirmed this rumor. It may be something worth asking at the next interview! Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

03-13-2013, 07:00 AM	#41
Ponq New Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4	It seems that Hirakawa-san is working for Tamron now. Hi, there. So sorry for my late post. I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039. This was issued by Tamron. This means......

03-13-2013, 07:25 AM	#43
Ponq New Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4	Here is a screenshot of patent search. Attached Images

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09-23-2012, 09:52 AM	#31
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by bobell69 Does anyone know how long it takes to design a lens from beginning to production? Just wondering if a lens design is the result of many months of design work by a team or an individual. I see Pentax currenty developing one or two lenses a year in the K mount, and about one every 18 months or so in the 645 mount. Is it reasonable to assume that if focused on one mount only that a ramp up could deliver three to five or more quality K mount lenses in a year? See as X-mount is less than a year old and companies are already producing lenses for it I don't think i takes too long. I would be surprised if Zeiss would dedicate resources to develop glass for the X-mount without first seeing the markets reaction to it. I would like to think the reason we have not seen any desirable glass from Pentax is because they are working on FF glass. Sigma did an interview a few years ago where they talked about how computer models have radically reduced development time for lenses and really improved the IQ of glass. Sigma has made huge strides in IQ over the past few years with lenses like the 50mm and 85mm. Newer glass like Fluorite, and ULD glass have made it easier to achieve really good IQ. The newer coating also make design easier. Can people confirm that the FA 31mm, 43mm, & 77mm were missing from the show and from the literature that was handed out? The rumor is going around that those lenses were not on display.

09-23-2012, 10:00 AM	#33
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by JerryLime Source from Taiwan said Mr. Hirakawa Jun works for a third-party lenses manufacturer. It meas he cannot come back to Pentax in a near future. Reference please? Link perhaps?

09-23-2012, 10:07 AM	#34
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Docrwm Reference please? Link perhaps? People on the DPR Sigma forums claimed he had gone to work for Sigma, but that has been month and months ago. Maybe that's why Sigma isn't releasing any K-mount glass. As a condition of his employment no lenses he designs will be released in K-mount.... (Sarcasm)

09-23-2012, 10:14 AM	#35
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Winder People on the DPR Sigma forums claimed he had gone to work for Sigma, but that has been month and months ago. Maybe that's why Sigma isn't releasing any K-mount glass. As a condition of his employment no lenses he designs will be released in K-mount.... (Sarcasm) Searched DPR and no such references or comments were found. Perhaps you can provide a link to something I missed?

09-23-2012, 10:26 AM	#36
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Docrwm Searched DPR and no such references or comments were found. Perhaps you can provide a link to something I missed? I will look and see what I can find. I was searching the Sigma forum for Sigma 85mm information back before it was released for Pentax. Or I Googled it and I was linked to DPR Sigma. Not saying it is true.... just that a couple of people were talking about it.

09-23-2012, 10:28 AM	#37
Docrwm Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Somewhere in the Southern US Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,285	Originally posted by Winder I will look and see what I can find. I was searching the Sigma forum for Sigma 85mm information back before it was released for Pentax. Or I Googled it and I was linked to DPR Sigma. Not saying it is true.... just that a couple of people were talking about it. I understand, it may have been as a point of comparison because he designed (as I recall) the FA*85 which is much emulated.

09-23-2012, 11:14 AM	#38
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Originally posted by Blue Do you have any verification of this? Or any Canon lenses he worked on? Not sure if it can be substantiated on the internet, but I read few years ago on Nikkei Shinbun while I was back in Japan. The article came out about a year or so prior to Ricoh's acquisition. The departure was thought to be "amicable" according to the article. He was also hired by Canon as a advisory staff - whatever that means. I recall there were several bloggers in Japan talking about his as well, and this I am sure you can look it up although you may have to rely on stellar Google translation. Here is one of them. 2011??PENTAX

09-23-2012, 12:24 PM - 1 Like	#39
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	FWIW, there's more to a final product on the shelf than just design. Parts must be sourced. Assemblers must be trained. Production must be scheduled. Capital must be allocated to stored inventory. When a company has limited capital, cash flow, sales volume, production capacity, manufacturing employees and must compete with voracious demand from Nikon and Sony - sometimes they just get shut out. Add the effect of natural disasters recently, weak global economy, currency fluctuations, Basel III banking regulations (only the highest quality loans are made) and it might just be that Pentax simply can't produce what it wants to produce for reasons other than engineers or ideas. For instance, has anyone ever tried to get a new product distribution in a B&M camera store without offering merchant credit? Not likely in today's economy.

03-13-2013, 07:06 AM	#42
Ponq New Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 4	Originally posted by LFLee Hirakawa Jun, the brilliant lens designer responsible for FA 85mm, FA 43, 77 ltd (and partial 31mm ltd) and several other FA* lenses (Hirakawa Jun - Camerapedia) rumor to be back with Pentax/Ricoh. He was "retired" when Hoya took over Pentax. If this is true, this is really an exciting news for Pentaxian -- Maybe he was back to design FF lenses? See this from a Taiwan Pentax forum. Source of news: 2??,?????.-PFC - Pentax Fans Club A really good news than all the recent announcements. Could he be involve in the limited zoom design? So sorry for my late post. It seems that Hirakawa-san is working for Tamron now. I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039. This was issued by Tamron. It means .....

03-13-2013, 07:31 AM	#44
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Ha, it means Tamron's already great lenses are about to get even better.

03-13-2013, 07:33 AM	#45
NickLarsson Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,390	Originally posted by Ponq So sorry for my late post. It seems that Hirakawa-san is working for Tamron now. I found Hirakawa-san's name on Japanese Unexamined Patent Application Publication #2013-45039. This was issued by Tamron. It means ..... Do you know for which lens is this patent ?

Hirakawa Jun back to Pentax/Ricoh?

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