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09-25-2012, 07:50 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zafar Iqbal Quote
I'm *very* skeptical about the sample photo. We are seeing a photo of photographs at thumbnail sized samples, yet the difference in sharpness is clearly noticeable? I have a hard time believing that.

Lets turn it around for a sec - how much would you need to sharpen your original photo in other for the added sharpness to still be noticeable at similar down scaled size?
Healthy scepticism is something to be nurtured. There's a bit too much cynicism around here, at times.

If those photos were doctored, Pentax would be roundly (and rightly) condemned for sharp practice (sorry). Seriously, any sane company wouldn't risk their reputation by this sort of bogus activity. Bold claims in text or speech are one thing, although they're usually couched carefully to avoid precision, but it's hard to make a claim in a visual presentation that can't be readily challenged by evidence to the contrary. The very nature of the AA filter is to slightly blur the image, so we shouldn't be surprised that its removal produces a detectable difference.

However, independent testing will be the thing that proves if the claims can stand up to scrutiny, as has been said a few times, already.

09-25-2012, 08:09 PM   #32
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When Fuji launched the X-Pro 1 they had A3+ sized prints from the XP1 and Canon 5DII on display so people could see the IQ of the new camera. Did Pentax provide any large prints at the show from the new K-5IIs? Was anything on display?
09-25-2012, 08:14 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
When Fuji launched the X-Pro 1 they had A3+ sized prints from the XP1 and Canon 5DII on display so people could see the IQ of the new camera. Did Pentax provide any large prints at the show from the new K-5IIs? Was anything on display?
I think Adam said they were going to issue full size samples - and they would send him the samples.
09-25-2012, 08:21 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
I think Adam said they were going to issue full size samples - and they would send him the samples.
Talk about bad marketing.... Go to the show with no print samples to show people? That's like showing up to an art director with my camera but no portfolio to show.

09-25-2012, 08:28 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Talk about bad marketing.... Go to the show with no print samples to show people? That's like showing up to an art director with my camera but no portfolio to show.
Oh yes - I'll agree with that. Would have saved a lot of moan and groan on this forum, for sure.
09-25-2012, 09:58 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Did Pentax provide any large prints at the show from the new K-5IIs? Was anything on display?
I think they did have sample printed images (or so I think). Adam mentioned somewhere that Ricoh even brought one of their big printers over at Photokina.
09-25-2012, 10:10 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
But can you get that sharpness with digital sharpening? You might hit the point where artifacts start showing.
You'd need wide/thick sharpening for the sharpness to show over greater distances or smaller sizes and I believe that's what Pentax did. When you sharpen for print, you do/should ind fact sharpen a bit too much vs. how you would sharpen for display on monitor. I'm claiming the sample to be shamelessly doctored - amd who knows. maybe the AA example was photographed with a lesser lens on top of that.

Look at these for comparison: Nikon D800 vs D800E Digital SLR Review

You get much larger photos by clicking on the thumbs, but how big a difference is there. Virtually none - if any. Shouldn't it be even clearer since these photo's are larger and digital photos, not photos or prints, than the K-II samples depicted here? I'm not saying the K-II samples should look exactly the same. Different sensors, different AA filters and all that, but the results should be much much closer.

The depicted photo is not exactly a downscale photo (the prints), but a small size depiction. The basic idea should still apply like it would with posters. One printed in low DPI vs. another one just like it, but printed at say 1200 DPI. You wont be able to tell the difference once you get far enough away from them.

RobA Oz: It's not often we hear about it and I'm pretty sure such matters are well protected to a great length. I also do not look deliberately for such incidents so I do not have many examples, but Nokia recently got caught faking the IQ of one of their latest smart phones. Sony, although not related to photography, did it some years ago regarding the potential pf Play Station 2. Same excuse was used in both cases "we tried to show the end result". Yeah, right.

Nokia's PureView still photos also include fakes (update: Nokia confirms) | The Verge
Killzone 2 - Killzone Wiki - The Killzone Database! - under Development
09-25-2012, 11:12 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
So, eyes and ears are pointing towards Singapore pentaxians...I guess. Frank have been quite active with these at past, no?

Not this time. The distributor for Pentax is in the midst of a switch here and it does not bode well for Singapore Pentaxians, going by the new distributor practices with Sigma lenses and Ricoh products.

09-25-2012, 11:50 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
I think they did have sample printed images (or so I think). Adam mentioned somewhere that Ricoh even brought one of their big printers over at Photokina.
The big printer was there indeed, but it was *not* (edit: sorry forgot the "not" in the first edition of the post) used to print images from the K-5II cameras. Esp since I asked several members of the Pentax staff for comparison prints and no-one could provide these. they all said that since the cameras didn't have final firmware all that they could show concerning image quality was the review on the LCD screens.

Adam was shown prints in the private part of the stand, but it seems these were for a restricted audience only. I expect they weren't allowed close up shots of the presentation they were given?

Wim

Last edited by Ishpuini; 09-26-2012 at 12:24 AM.
09-25-2012, 11:59 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by JinDesu Quote
But can you get that sharpness with digital sharpening? You might hit the point where artifacts start showing.
I think you can.
I use "FOCALBLADE" ( The Plugin Site - FocalBlade - Main ) which has outstanding control over sharpening artifacts. (White/Black halos and the rest)
I don't use anything else for sharpening.

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09-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Unlikely, because if they're so close then might as well cancel the II and just release the IIs by itself....
What I meant was that it makes more sense to see the Pentax lineup as three tier:

K-30 > K-5II > K5-IIs

The IIs is essentially a higher tier camera. It does sit beside the II, it actually sits above it. I think this is partly why the price difference may seem high. The IIs is a cheap way of getting a three tier lineup.
09-26-2012, 12:19 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
The big printer was there indeed, but it was used to print images from the K-5II cameras. Esp since I asked several members of the Pentax staff for comparison prints and no-one could provide these. they all said that since the cameras didn't have final firmware all that they could show concerning image quality was the review on the LCD screens.

Adam was shown prints in the private part of the stand, but it seems these were for a restricted audience only. I expect they weren't allowed close up shots of the presentation they were given?

Wim
This is the only thing worries me. The camera is coming out in October in the UK therefore Pentax would surely have had production models on hand and the firmware must have been finalised by photokina. If not they are cutting the release window very fine. Given this why not publicly show samples?
09-26-2012, 01:14 AM   #43
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Will the removal of the AA filter lower the high ISO performance or it has nothing to do with that?
09-26-2012, 01:22 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by mirelay Quote
Will the removal of the AA filter lower the high ISO performance or it has nothing to do with that?
Actually I heard the opposite. High ISO would have marginally less noise without an AA filter. I'm not sure how this would work though... I've looked around for a technical explanation of this, but found none...

Wim
09-26-2012, 01:32 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
Actually I heard the opposite. High ISO would have marginally less noise without an AA filter. I'm not sure how this would work though... I've looked around for a technical explanation of this, but found none...

Wim
the sensor remains the same so that high ISO performance will remain the same. However the Low pass filter is some sort of extra layer before the sensor therefore it may ever so slightly have an affect on the ammount of light falling on the sensor.
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