K5IIs sample?

Peer · 10-05-2012, 01:17 AM

Ok, i just change it

Last edited by Peer; 10-05-2012 at 03:14 AM.

conradj · 10-05-2012, 03:22 AM

Quite a noticeable difference. The K-5IIs shot of the rooftops is blurrier than the K-5II, but even so looks like it has better detail. The tile shots have such a pronounced difference it looks like the K-5II one is out of focus.

Peer if you have the original prints or have at least examined them: what differences do you see, and how big are these differences?

Peer · 10-05-2012, 11:50 AM

conradj, no - the samples are from the internet - and the url i cant find anymore.

PS: ..on my meaning of the differences to the pics ontop: the larger datails of the IIs is awakened a bigger depth dimension ( in MY mind )

Alizarine · 10-07-2012, 08:07 AM

This is a sample of moire from a K-x...

now with the AA filter missing in the K-5 IIs, does this mean cases like in this photo will show even stronger moire?
while web viewing will make the strange color pattern negligible, if it shows up more pronounced in print... I'm going to have a headache in PP

forestskier · 10-07-2012, 09:37 AM

Someone in the other web site was saying this sample images taken only by K-5IIs use extrasharpness and others were not. Is that ture?

Class A · 10-07-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Alizarine

...now with the AA filter missing in the K-5 IIs, does this mean cases like in this photo will show even stronger moire?

Yes, it will.

I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur.

**RobA_Oz** · 10-07-2012, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by forestskier

Someone in the other web site was saying this sample images taken only by K-5IIs use extrasharpness and others were not. Is that ture?

If that were true, the deception would soon be discovered when reviewers actually got their hands on the cameras. I personally doubt that any manufacturer wanting to stay in business would sanction such blatant manipulation. The last time I recall anyone doing that was Isuzu in the 1960s, when they grossly exaggerated performance claims for their small sedan, the Bellette. They were quickly exposed by testers, and just as quickly withdrew the ads.

If there's any single thing you should beware of on Internet forums, it's FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). Enthusiastic hyperbole possibly runs a close second, but often is less easily spotted.

**Eric Auer** · 10-07-2012, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by Class A

Yes, it will.

I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur.

I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that. and what we have is not from everyday day use from owners.

I promise as soon as I get mine, I will spend a week running around taking pictures that will show moire so that all of you can rest in peace.........or not.....

Zafar Iqbal · 10-07-2012, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Alizarine

This is a sample of moire from a K-x...

Using what RAW converter?

When I upgraded from Lightroom 3.5 to 4 I noticed an increased amount of moire on my photos. Before it would only show on extreme cases whereas with v4 i see more a lot more often.

This was using my K-x and now K-30.

If it's that bad using a dSLR with AA, then using one without the filter is going to be hell.

Alizarine · 10-07-2012, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Class A

Yes, it will. I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur.

I'm going to have lots of headaches then

Originally posted by Corto-PA

I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that. and what we have is not from everyday day use from owners.

I just hope they do something about it through software. I'm not sure how Nikon did it for the D800E, since it's not technically an "AA-less" camera, they just created a workaround for it, but there's still something in front of the sensor.

Originally posted by Zafar Iqbal

Using what RAW converter? When I upgraded from Lightroom 3.5 to 4 I noticed an increased amount of moire on my photos. Before it would only show on extreme cases whereas with v4 i see more a lot more often.

I tried out Capture One v6 (used Photoshop in ACR 5 before). Not sure if there's any increase in moire between the different programs but AFAIK I saw them in both. Only now that I was thinking of upgrading the the II-s did I really think about moire.

Class A · 10-07-2012, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Corto-PA

I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that.

It is not a 200MP sensor, so you'll see moiré. No need to wait for user reports. The D800e has the same pixel density and one can already look at examples showing moiré. As a matter of fact, when considering equivalent images, the 16MP K-5 IIs will show moiré more often than the 24MP D800e.

I'm sure many users will report back that they aren't getting moiré in practice. These users, however, should ask themselves whether they are really exploiting the potential of an AA-less camera.

Originally posted by Alizarine

I just hope they do something about it through software.

Not possible, in general. Moiré is the result of spurious information being recorded (that should never have been recorded in the first place) and there is no way in which the destroyed information can be recovered.

The cleverer moiré fixing software will become, the better it will be able to patch things up so that it looks inconspicuously, but in general nothing short of content-aware filling will be truly satisfactory and I don't see that coming to standard software solutions anytime soon.

Originally posted by Alizarine

I'm not sure how Nikon did it for the D800E, since it's not technically an "AA-less" camera, they just created a workaround for it, but there's still something in front of the sensor.

The "something in front of the sensor" are two birefringent plates that cancel out each other (rather than two birefringent plates that scatter in two orthogonal directions).

This is just a particular solution to not have any "AA filtering" effect, but it is equivalent to having no filter at all. Completely omitting the filter would require a different sensor alignment and this is just more difficult/costly to handle compared to choosing between two part types.

**Eric Auer** · 10-08-2012, 02:06 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Class A

It is not a 200MP sensor, so you'll see moiré. No need to wait for user reports. The D800e has the same pixel density and one can already look at examples showing moiré.

I'm sure many users will report back that they aren't getting moiré in practice. These users, however, should ask themselves whether they are really exploiting the potential of an AA-less camera.
.

.....yawn

You people wear me out.

Here's some Moire from a scanned film shot just so you all can obsess over it:

rawr · 10-08-2012, 03:47 AM

While we all await more sample images, here are a few more photos from the Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIs debut events in Japan, from flickr user HAMACHI. These were taken on 6 October:

Folks trying out the new SAFOX AF in the 'dark area':

This was one of the focus targets in the 'dark area':

A K-5 II cut in two (boom boom!):

garyk · 10-08-2012, 08:32 AM

That is cruel and unnecessary punishment. I for one would like to know what that K-5ll did to deserve this.
That is banned in my country. Barbaric.

rawr · 10-08-2012, 11:49 AM

It is a disturbing image. But I am very impressed at how fine and precise the cutting blade must have been.

10-05-2012, 03:22 AM	#122
conradj Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 188	Quite a noticeable difference. The K-5IIs shot of the rooftops is blurrier than the K-5II, but even so looks like it has better detail. The tile shots have such a pronounced difference it looks like the K-5II one is out of focus. Peer if you have the original prints or have at least examined them: what differences do you see, and how big are these differences? Last edited by conradj; 10-05-2012 at 03:36 AM.

10-05-2012, 11:50 AM	#123
Peer New Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 7	conradj, no - the samples are from the internet - and the url i cant find anymore. PS: ..on my meaning of the differences to the pics ontop: the larger datails of the IIs is awakened a bigger depth dimension ( in MY mind ) Last edited by Peer; 10-07-2012 at 12:06 AM.

10-07-2012, 09:59 PM	#131
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Corto-PA I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that. It is not a 200MP sensor, so you'll see moiré. No need to wait for user reports. The D800e has the same pixel density and one can already look at examples showing moiré. As a matter of fact, when considering equivalent images, the 16MP K-5 IIs will show moiré more often than the 24MP D800e. I'm sure many users will report back that they aren't getting moiré in practice. These users, however, should ask themselves whether they are really exploiting the potential of an AA-less camera. Originally posted by Alizarine I just hope they do something about it through software. Not possible, in general. Moiré is the result of spurious information being recorded (that should never have been recorded in the first place) and there is no way in which the destroyed information can be recovered. The cleverer moiré fixing software will become, the better it will be able to patch things up so that it looks inconspicuously, but in general nothing short of content-aware filling will be truly satisfactory and I don't see that coming to standard software solutions anytime soon. Originally posted by Alizarine I'm not sure how Nikon did it for the D800E, since it's not technically an "AA-less" camera, they just created a workaround for it, but there's still something in front of the sensor. The "something in front of the sensor" are two birefringent plates that cancel out each other (rather than two birefringent plates that scatter in two orthogonal directions). This is just a particular solution to not have any "AA filtering" effect, but it is equivalent to having no filter at all. Completely omitting the filter would require a different sensor alignment and this is just more difficult/costly to handle compared to choosing between two part types. Last edited by Class A; 10-17-2012 at 06:59 PM.

10-08-2012, 02:06 AM - 1 Like	#132
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Class A It is not a 200MP sensor, so you'll see moiré. No need to wait for user reports. The D800e has the same pixel density and one can already look at examples showing moiré. I'm sure many users will report back that they aren't getting moiré in practice. These users, however, should ask themselves whether they are really exploiting the potential of an AA-less camera. . .....yawn You people wear me out. Here's some Moire from a scanned film shot just so you all can obsess over it: Last edited by Eric Auer; 10-08-2012 at 02:17 AM.

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10-05-2012, 01:17 AM	#121
Peer New Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 7	Ok, i just change it Last edited by Peer; 10-05-2012 at 03:14 AM.

10-07-2012, 08:07 AM	#124
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	This is a sample of moire from a K-x... now with the AA filter missing in the K-5 IIs, does this mean cases like in this photo will show even stronger moire? while web viewing will make the strange color pattern negligible, if it shows up more pronounced in print... I'm going to have a headache in PP

10-07-2012, 09:37 AM	#125
forestskier New Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tochigi Posts: 12	Someone in the other web site was saying this sample images taken only by K-5IIs use extrasharpness and others were not. Is that ture?

10-07-2012, 12:46 PM	#126
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Alizarine ...now with the AA filter missing in the K-5 IIs, does this mean cases like in this photo will show even stronger moire? Yes, it will. I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur.

10-07-2012, 01:02 PM	#127
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,191	Originally posted by forestskier Someone in the other web site was saying this sample images taken only by K-5IIs use extrasharpness and others were not. Is that ture? If that were true, the deception would soon be discovered when reviewers actually got their hands on the cameras. I personally doubt that any manufacturer wanting to stay in business would sanction such blatant manipulation. The last time I recall anyone doing that was Isuzu in the 1960s, when they grossly exaggerated performance claims for their small sedan, the Bellette. They were quickly exposed by testers, and just as quickly withdrew the ads. If there's any single thing you should beware of on Internet forums, it's FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). Enthusiastic hyperbole possibly runs a close second, but often is less easily spotted.

10-07-2012, 03:46 PM	#128
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Class A Yes, it will. I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur. I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that. and what we have is not from everyday day use from owners. I promise as soon as I get mine, I will spend a week running around taking pictures that will show moire so that all of you can rest in peace.........or not.....

10-07-2012, 06:39 PM	#129
Zafar Iqbal Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,229	Originally posted by Alizarine This is a sample of moire from a K-x... Using what RAW converter? When I upgraded from Lightroom 3.5 to 4 I noticed an increased amount of moire on my photos. Before it would only show on extreme cases whereas with v4 i see more a lot more often. This was using my K-x and now K-30. If it's that bad using a dSLR with AA, then using one without the filter is going to be hell.

10-07-2012, 07:05 PM	#130
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by Class A Yes, it will. I don't understand this craze about amputated models like the K-5 IIs or the D800. The AA filters in Pentax cameras are not too strong as they allow some moiré still to occur. I'm going to have lots of headaches then Originally posted by Corto-PA I don't understand this craze about the IIs moire. Since we still have very little to show that. and what we have is not from everyday day use from owners. I just hope they do something about it through software. I'm not sure how Nikon did it for the D800E, since it's not technically an "AA-less" camera, they just created a workaround for it, but there's still something in front of the sensor. Originally posted by Zafar Iqbal Using what RAW converter? When I upgraded from Lightroom 3.5 to 4 I noticed an increased amount of moire on my photos. Before it would only show on extreme cases whereas with v4 i see more a lot more often. I tried out Capture One v6 (used Photoshop in ACR 5 before). Not sure if there's any increase in moire between the different programs but AFAIK I saw them in both. Only now that I was thinking of upgrading the the II-s did I really think about moire.

10-08-2012, 03:47 AM	#133
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	While we all await more sample images, here are a few more photos from the Pentax K-5 II / K-5 IIs debut events in Japan, from flickr user HAMACHI. These were taken on 6 October: Folks trying out the new SAFOX AF in the 'dark area': This was one of the focus targets in the 'dark area': A K-5 II cut in two (boom boom!):

10-08-2012, 08:32 AM	#134
garyk Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	That is cruel and unnecessary punishment. I for one would like to know what that K-5ll did to deserve this. That is banned in my country. Barbaric.

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10-08-2012, 11:49 AM	#135
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	It is a disturbing image. But I am very impressed at how fine and precise the cutting blade must have been.