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09-25-2012, 02:34 AM   #1
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K5IIs sample?

Stir the pot here a little.

Got this from a Japanese friend.




Supposed to be a brochure showing the difference between K5II and K5IIs on the right.
If its as good as it shows on the brochure, Pentax sure got a 'godly' camera for aps-c dslr.


Last edited by Parallax; 09-25-2012 at 07:17 AM.
09-25-2012, 03:21 AM   #2
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The left pic is more contrasty, so it looks sharper. It would be great If you can have him scan them

Edit: No wait, I see now. The bottom portion looks sharper on the right. Nice!
09-25-2012, 03:31 AM   #3
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Hard to tell from the picture, but it seems in line with the reactions during the pentaxforums Pentax Photokina interview.

The real test will be a RAW from both cameras, sharpened in PP to a maximum without sharpening artefacts appearing. The result of this will reveal whether the K-5IIs will be able to show more detail or not. But it looks good so far...

Wim
09-25-2012, 04:14 AM   #4
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I don't think there's much doubt the picture will be appreciably sharper but I'd be more interested in seeing how bad moire might be in certain scenarios. This picture is unlikely to show it up.

Would I be right in saying that older lenses with 'optical resolutions' below the 16mp sensor will act as an AA filter anyway?

09-25-2012, 04:56 AM   #5
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Evidence will eventually make its way from the Home Island to the rest of us. Patience. Patience.
09-25-2012, 05:09 AM   #6
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If you enlarge the picture, it's pretty clear the right-hand photo is sharper all over, not just in one corner. How bad Moiré effects are will be one thing to know, but it will be more interesting to know which software deals most effectively with it. Based on the promise shown here, I would think macro and landscape shooters will be looking long and hard at this camera. I can think of at least one of my friends who'll be among the first to order a K-5IIs, and I mightn't be far behind him.

Last edited by RobA_Oz; 09-27-2012 at 12:11 AM.
09-25-2012, 05:22 AM - 1 Like   #7
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When I visited the Photokina stand last Sunday, I explicitely asked about Moiré. Since I was just a regular show visitor I couldn't ask any of the engineers behind the scenes, and had to make do with the people in the public part of the stand, mostly temps.

The first time I asked I only got the standard answer that clearly had been rehearsed.

When I returned later in the day, I repeated the question to another guy, and he turned out to be considerably more knowledgeable. He confirmed that they hadn't had any real information apart from the standard, but that he and a colleague had dug up a test chart the other day and tried very hard themselves to create Moiré. However he said they couldn't produce a single shot that showed Moiré (using on camera review). He showed me the test chart and invited me to try myself. Of course in the short time span that I could take a few snaps I couldn't do better than they had. Seeing the chart they used and judging from the way he spoke about the subject, his conclusion may not be final, it did certainly inspire confidence.

Still, this may just mean the JPG engine deals with Moiré in a very efficient way (after all, the camera only shows the embedded JPG and never the RAW itself). Even if this be the case, then the same should be possible in Post Processing, and the problem really isn't one.

Nothing firm, but still...

Wim

Last edited by Ishpuini; 09-25-2012 at 05:47 AM.
09-25-2012, 05:50 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
Still, this may just mean the JPG engine deals with Moiré in a very efficient way (after all, the camera only shows the embedded JPG and never the RAW itself).
The embedded JPG has a shi**y resolution, hasn't it? At least I can't rely on it showing the real thing at high magnifications if I want to check critical focus. I'm pretty sure moiré will be a real problem here. After all, it shows up in some 645D photographs, and it was a real problem with my K10D with its weak AA filter.

09-25-2012, 05:56 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
When I visited the Photokina stand last Sunday, I explicitely asked about Moiré. Since I was just a regular show visitor I couldn't ask any of the engineers behind the scenes, and had to make do with the people in the public part of the stand, mostly temps.

The first time I asked I only got the standard answer that clearly had been rehearsed.

When I returned later in the day, I repeated the question to another guy, and he turned out to be considerably more knowledgeable. He confirmed that they hadn't had any real information apart from the standard, but that he and a colleague had dug up a test chart the other day and tried very hard themselves to create Moiré. However he said they couldn't produce a single shot that showed Moiré (using on camera review). He showed me the test chart and invited me to try myself. Of course in the short time span that I could take a few snaps I couldn't do better than they had. Seeing the chart they used and judging from the way he spoke about the subject, his conclusion may not be final, it did certainly inspire confidence.

Still, this may just mean the JPG engine deals with Moiré in a very efficient way (after all, the camera only shows the embedded JPG and never the RAW itself). Even if this be the case, then the same should be possible in Post Processing, and the problem really isn't one.

Nothing firm, but still...

Wim
As you say nothing firm but reassuring.

I wonder if Pentax are using a specific algorithm in the JPEG engine to deal with the moire straight off? I would think that they would also get their bundled RAW software to do this as well in post. However my concern is that third party applications, such as Lightroom, won't have access to this. Having said this I don't know if Lightroom does any kind of automatic moire correction itself or how could it might be if it does.

If the K5IIs is as moire free as the II I might well be very tempted. Combined with the AF improvements it would make the IIs a significant upgrade of the K-5 whereas the II would be a simple tweaked K-5.

However I am still going to wait until CP+ in the hopes of a model above the K-5IIs.
09-25-2012, 06:03 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The embedded JPG has a shi**y resolution, hasn't it? At least I can't rely on it showing the real thing at high magnifications if I want to check critical focus. I'm pretty sure moiré will be a real problem here. After all, it shows up in some 645D photographs, and it was a real problem with my K10D with its weak AA filter.
True, there's no being sure.

I'm going to continue with my K-5 for a while and will decide around New Year whether the upgrade to the K-5IIs may be an option or not. I'll be keeping a look on any tests that might appear here...

Wim
09-25-2012, 06:11 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
True, there's no being sure.

I'm going to continue with my K-5 for a while and will decide around New Year whether the upgrade to the K-5IIs may be an option or not. I'll be keeping a look on any tests that might appear here...

Wim
I am sure that there won't be a shortage of tests once the K-5IIs hits the reviewers. In many ways it makes sense for reviewers not to bother with the II because the IQ is likely to be identical to the K-5 (more or less). If they review the IIs they can copy paste the K-5 IQ section for a quick II review!
09-25-2012, 06:14 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
I wonder if Pentax are using a specific algorithm in the JPEG engine to deal with the moire straight off? I would think that they would also get their bundled RAW software to do this as well in post. However my concern is that third party applications, such as Lightroom, won't have access to this. Having said this I don't know if Lightroom does any kind of automatic moire correction itself or how could it might be if it does.
One of the adjustment brushes available in Lightroom is a Moiré removal brush. There's demos online that show D800E pictures showing Moiré being treated and all Moiré being removed using this brush. So, yes it does seem to be able to deal with it. Downside is that it's a manual process where you have to paint into the areas showing Moiré yourself. If Moiré is rare, I suppose this is an OK option. If it's likely to occur on all pictures, however, it's another thing entirely. Depending on the amount of effort one is prepared to put into the post processing, this may or may not be an important concern.

Personally I tend to spend quite some time in post processing as it is, esp on my "best" pictures (I'm very selective, both during shooting and during initial selection in post processing), so I wouldn't think this extra check/treatment would concern me much. Furthermore I don't tend to shoot much Moiré sensitive subject matter. But of course: YMMV

Wim
09-25-2012, 06:32 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
One of the adjustment brushes available in Lightroom is a Moiré removal brush. There's demos online that show D800E pictures showing Moiré being treated and all Moiré being removed using this brush. So, yes it does seem to be able to deal with it. Downside is that it's a manual process where you have to paint into the areas showing Moiré yourself. If Moiré is rare, I suppose this is an OK option. If it's likely to occur on all pictures, however, it's another thing entirely. Depending on the amount of effort one is prepared to put into the post processing, this may or may not be an important concern.

Personally I tend to spend quite some time in post processing as it is, esp on my "best" pictures (I'm very selective, both during shooting and during initial selection in post processing), so I wouldn't think this extra check/treatment would concern me much. Furthermore I don't tend to shoot much Moiré sensitive subject matter. But of course: YMMV

Wim
Good to know. I tend not to take huge numbers of photos and often spend a while in post anyway as well.

I'm looking forward to seeing live samples.
09-25-2012, 08:47 AM   #14
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DxO Optics Pro can remove moire

I think moire can be easily handled:

From the DxO Optics Pro 7 User Manual
QuoteQuote:
<snip>
Finally, two checkboxes enable
<snip>
– an "anti-moiré" filter. Moiré is a disturbing phenomenon which takes places when some surfaces (silk, feathers, for example) have minutes details which cause interferences
09-25-2012, 09:30 AM   #15
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K5IIs

I hope that dpreview get an early one to trial. I feel my credit card burning a hole in my jeans.
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