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09-28-2012, 05:07 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
The onus is on Pentax to assuage its customer's fears if it wants to keep them, and the general consensus outside of PF seems to be the K-5II wasn't enough to do that.
The K-5 II & IIs were a good holding move. The advanced amateur competition is static for now (D7000, D300S, 60D, 7D), which gives Pentax some breathing room. The K-30 was a coup. Now they just need the basic K-300, advanced K-3, and Ricoh MILC.

QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
DPreview and DxOMark disagree with you on the m4/3 vs. APS-C image quality debate, if you think those sites have little influence well...good luck swaying the market. Sony has plenty of NEX cheaper than Pentax DSLRs, and they're making strides in hybrid AF as we speak. and finally....who shoots sports with Pentax? all those things you mentioned can be and are being done just fine (and professionally) with FF...
- DXO shows the Panasonics have reached parity with the four year old K20D. The OM5 has reached the level of the three year old K-x.
- Pentax needs a K-300 to compete with other makers' lower price levels.
- We've already established that Pentax is not the Pro brand. OTOH, at least you could do a pro shoot with a Pentax DSLR. Shooting pro sports or a wedding with a NEX would get you laughed out of the place. But I'm talking about people like most of us on this forum, who own a DSLR because it's the most well-rounded performer. We do shoot birds, wildlife and sports. I bet most here would be horrified at the thought of trading a DSLR for a NEX. Pentax users mostly came to the brand for specific reasons, and carefully researched their choice. Sure some will leave, but as long as more come, it's a win. I like Pentax's prospects, especiallly with the sales the potential in countries and entire continents where they don't even compete currently.


Last edited by audiobomber; 09-28-2012 at 05:40 AM.
09-28-2012, 05:23 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
The K-5 II & IIs were a good holding move. The advanced amateur competition is static for now (D7000, D300S, 60D, 7D), which gives Pentax some breathing room. The K-30 was a coup. Now they just need the basic K-300, advanced K-3, and Ricoh MILC.


- DXO shows the Panasonics have reached parity with the four year old K20D. The OM5 has reached the level of the three year old K-x.
- Pentax needs a K-300 to compete with other makers' lower price levels.
- We've already established that Pentax is not the Pro brand, I'm talking about people like most of us on this forum, who own a DSLR because it's the most well-rounded performer. We do shoot birds, wildlife and sports. I bet most here would be horrified at the thought of trading a DSLR for a NEX-7. Pentax users mostly came to the brand for specific reasons, and carefully researched their choice. Sure some will leave, but as long as more come, it's a win. I like Pentax's prospects, especiallly with the sales the potential in countries and entire continents where they don't even compete currently.
Tried a M4/3 camera, just not for me. It offered no meaningful gain for me in size, ease of usage, etc. If I want to go small I put my 35-70 on my K-x and I have a MUCH more capable camera that I can use in bright sunlight with ease and which has more functionality for me in a number of ways. The K-30 is positioned as an entry-level camera based on current pricing at ~$650, or do you think that a dSLR with a retail price of <$500 is necessary to compete today?
09-28-2012, 05:44 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
The K-30 is positioned as an entry-level camera based on current pricing at ~$650, or do you think that a dSLR with a retail price of <$500 is necessary to compete today?
I believe a K-r style body is a virtual necessity to attract p&s upgraders. Pentax can't afford to concede that market, because Canon and Nikon are there. Pricing is extemely sensitive at entry level.
09-28-2012, 05:59 AM   #139
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In Norway the K-r is currently priced at $430 (including 25% VAT) with the 18-55 DAL. Not much competition imo. Still people buy the D3100, and 1100D instead.

09-28-2012, 06:21 AM   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Good point, but I don't think you can buy the NEX-7 with that lens yet!
Plus it has no OVF or EVF on there.
09-28-2012, 06:49 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Plus it has no OVF or EVF on there.
The NEX-7 has a built-in EVF (see lower left in that picture). It's very good, but I certainly prefer my K-5 with its OVF.
09-28-2012, 07:02 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The NEX-7 has a built-in EVF (see lower left in that picture). It's very good, but I certainly prefer my K-5 with its OVF.
That was an attempt at sarcasm hence the >
09-28-2012, 07:07 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
The NEX-7 has a built-in EVF (see lower left in that picture).
Yes, I tried a NEX-7 EVF last weekend. It's still like looking at a cartoon. At least it beats trying to see an LCD screen on a sunny day.

09-28-2012, 07:21 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That was an attempt at sarcasm hence the >
Ah, sorry
09-28-2012, 07:23 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Yes, I tried a NEX-7 EVF last weekend. It's still like looking at a cartoon. At least it beats trying to see an LCD screen on a sunny day.
I agree, but my daughter doesn't mind at all. But she almost always uses the EVF and not the LCD - says she can't concentrate on composing the picture otherwise.
09-28-2012, 07:40 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
- We've already established that Pentax is not the Pro brand.
Pentax needs to make a push to capture a portion of this market. They need a lot of things like lenses and a FF body, but they need to fill the gap between the APS-C and 645D.

An aspiring professional photographer is going to start with a system that they see "pros" using. This buyer is more likely to buy multiple lenses and accessories. The consumer will buy 1-2 zoom lenses and be done.

Pentax won't make a lot of money in the pro market if any for a long time, but it drives entry level and enthusiast sales. I know Pentax does not have the technology to compete with Canon and Nikon when it comes to "pro" AF for sports, but they can develop the AF to handle events, wedding, fashion, & commercial.
09-28-2012, 07:51 AM   #147
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I agree with all you said Winder, but the timing is the issue. Right now is not the time for Pentax to go FF. They need an entry-level DSLR, a MILC, more lenses and better marketing/distribution first. It appears their time frame for FF is about two years at the earliest, and that makes sense to me.
09-28-2012, 08:00 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Pentax needs to make a push to capture a portion of this market. They need a lot of things like lenses and a FF body, but they need to fill the gap between the APS-C and 645D.

An aspiring professional photographer is going to start with a system that they see "pros" using. This buyer is more likely to buy multiple lenses and accessories. The consumer will buy 1-2 zoom lenses and be done.

Pentax won't make a lot of money in the pro market if any for a long time, but it drives entry level and enthusiast sales. I know Pentax does not have the technology to compete with Canon and Nikon when it comes to "pro" AF for sports, but they can develop the AF to handle events, wedding, fashion, & commercial.
Interesting how differently folks see things. I'm coming from the opposite end: "Why would anyone want to buy a DSLR?" Whereas at the other end, the question is "Why would anyone want to buy a bigger DSLR?" But that's because I think the pro market should be left to the big two and the gigantic sums required for a move into the pro market might be better spent on the first question. A friend has just come back from several months abroad and the only "camera" he took was his iPad. But hey, great snaps which have come out fine using auto-everthing, perfectly OK for the purpose, instantly viewable quite large on the iPad's fine display, instantly or nearly so available to friends around the world via wifi, and editable (I would guess) using software already on the iPad that many camera companies do not have and apparently have never thought to create. I saw a quite lot of folks using iPads as cameras at the Paralympics in London a few weeks ago and the form factor has potential, imho - room in there for more a lot more stuff, apps, camera/sensor hardware than mobile phones have. So I guess the last question may soon be "Why would anyone want to buy a dedicated camera at all?" If Pentax gets that one right their future will be assured. But what do I know. No one has the whole answer to anything.
09-28-2012, 08:06 AM   #149
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While I agree they should make a step forward with the K-mount system, in order to keep/attract spending customers, I doubt they can touch the small format pro market - it's way too expensive to be there (with all their ambition, not even Sony dared to try). I'm not sure they should even target this market.
However, a bottom-up strategy can work; and that's exactly what they're doing, IMO.

They also have the 645 Digital line, which I'd say will have an even bigger role as their truly professional system.

mecrox, so Pentax should quit making cameras and start with smartphones and tablets, instead?
09-28-2012, 08:12 AM   #150
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Mecrox, we certainly live in different worlds. If I had to use a phone or tablet, I'd quit photography. I am not joking. I have a camera in my BlackBerry Curve. It's a miserable and pathetic way to take a photo.
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