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10-01-2012, 12:50 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
P.S. Anyway, I don't care about Pentax cameras and lenses anymore. I have 6 primes and K200D and it's enough for me.
I've lost interest to modern Pentax gears.
Buy a K5 - it's cheap now that it is discontinued - and you'll see the performance of your 6 primes increased

10-01-2012, 01:05 PM   #17
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I don't see why the need to stick to their values would eliminate FF. Maybe they couldn't make something as small as a K-5, but I think true to their style, they could still come up with an FF offering that is smaller, more compact, tougher, better sealed and better priced than it's competitors.
10-01-2012, 01:59 PM   #18
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I agree FullertonImages, (maybe I can just call you Fullerton, or Fuller...)... I agree... ertonIma ... and think Pentax can do it (and will!!!). A canon 6D is only 770g (compare the K5 at 740g).

....But I'm with OGL on this. Pentax will always have a place in my heart, and for now.... on my shelf. I'll be back when Pentax lets me buy a D600 with a K-mount. At this point I don't care if it is better priced

The K5 is a great camera for some - but I've had more than my fair share of trouble trying to make it focus properly. Yes I could buy a different focusing screen, and Manual Focus... but dammit... I don't drive a horse anymore either. I've spent craploads of dough buying lenses that don't get any camera time. And somehow this little post encouraging Pentax has turned into a rant. Damn you internet. Damn you to.... well.... wherever Hoya is from.
10-01-2012, 02:53 PM   #19
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For me, the key point in the interview is this:

QuoteQuote:
Both Pentax and Ricoh have some of the most original products of the moment, as the modular GXR system, the small Q or K-01 . Is it different the perception in Europe and Japan for both cameras that are out of normal?

In Japan this type of unique products are very well received by those who already have an SLR but want a smaller camera to carry with them. In Europe the market for this type of system cameras is still very small compared with Japan. They now represent almost 50% of all interchangeable lens cameras sold, while here quotas are between 10 and 20%.
I think the question for Pentax Ricoh is whether they wish to remain a markedly Japanese company attuned to their home market or follow Canonikon and co into the wide world which will change they way the present themselves and the kind of products they offer since both the GXR and the K-01 are the kind of minority interest cameras one wouldn't expect to see from the big camera companies. If the latter, then I think FF will come in 2-3 years in some form. If the former, then it may never come or come only when/if APS-C is done and finished in their home market. We simply don't know which side will come out on top of this one, if sides are ever taken. In the circs, it's a bit mysterious why Ricoh bought Pentax, though. I mean, one thinks "surely it must be for a bit more than this", but perhaps it wasn't.

10-01-2012, 03:10 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
P.S. Anyway, I don't care about Pentax cameras and lenses anymore. I have 6 primes and K200D and it's enough for me.
I've lost interest to modern Pentax gears.
I don't recall seeing anyone post so prolifically on a subject they care nothing about, or have lost interest in
10-01-2012, 03:18 PM   #21
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Its a good thing.
That means the MILC idea as it is will be relooked at in a different implementation than K01.
Be it slimmer/smaller, Gxr module, no more fashionista like design, whatever.
The K01 was pretty good as a MILC for Pentaxians, but was very much a ver1.0 product and did not capture the public's interest.
10-01-2012, 03:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Sounds to me that they have looked at FF and decided they give up too much of what Pentax is (small size, moderate price) and their 'range' (lens selection) is focused on APS-C. So they are being polite and non-committal but have no intention of bringing out a FF camera within the foreseeable future..
Sounds to me like they would like to make a FF but Sony doesn't make enough sensors and it would be too expensive to buy them elsewhere.
10-01-2012, 03:34 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
For me, the key point in the interview is this:



I think the question for Pentax Ricoh is whether they wish to remain a markedly Japanese company attuned to their home market or follow Canonikon and co into the wide world which will change they way the present themselves and the kind of products they offer since both the GXR and the K-01 are the kind of minority interest cameras one wouldn't expect to see from the big camera companies. If the latter, then I think FF will come in 2-3 years in some form. If the former, then it may never come or come only when/if APS-C is done and finished in their home market. We simply don't know which side will come out on top of this one, if sides are ever taken. In the circs, it's a bit mysterious why Ricoh bought Pentax, though. I mean, one thinks "surely it must be for a bit more than this", but perhaps it wasn't.

I couldn't agree more.

I find it a bit discouraging as they are always refering to their home market. I understand that they're comparatively successful in Japan than in other geographical areas, but I fear that they be too much geocentric (sorry english is not my 1st language). I wonder that same as you regarding Ricoh motivations (and influence on Pentax staff), and I hope they will have a more global reflection. There are new emerging markets, there are different demands, and for sure it requires open minds, creativity, synergy.

I sincerely hope they will be able to override their native culture, accept the challenge and take actions to boost their sales not only based on what the Japanese market is/will be. I'm quite sure they need a serious marketing dpt, not in the "negative" sense, but to grab global information, define real products (not gimmicks), plan action, support and expand their image, etc. They might even have to change their organization to succeed. It might be necessary to change/hire some executives for that... Well, not so easy after the last 5 years...

Crossing the fingers...

10-01-2012, 03:59 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kikool_CH Quote
but I fear that they be too much geocentric (sorry english is not my 1st language)..
You mastery of it is better than most native speakers
Pete
10-01-2012, 05:38 PM   #25
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QuoteQuote:
Originally posted by jatrax: Sounds to me that they have looked at FF and decided they give up too much of what Pentax is (small size, moderate price) and their 'range' (lens selection) is focused on APS-C. So they are being polite and non-committal but have no intention of bringing out a FF camera within the foreseeable future.
.
QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Sounds to me like they would like to make a FF but Sony doesn't make enough sensors and it would be too expensive to buy them elsewhere.
Thank you for making my point, which is simply that any of the statements I have seen from Pentax can be interpreted in many different ways because they are so ambiguous. I am not trying to argue they will or will not make a FF. I have no idea. All I am saying is that any of the Pentax statements made have been so deliberately vague as to make any meaningful conclusion from them impossible. Which is what I would expect from properly trained / coached executives.

Not different from politicians really, just say whatever will make the crowd happy without actually saying anything with any substance.
10-01-2012, 05:52 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
For me, the key point in the interview is this:
Yea, their Japan-centric focus is a huge constraint on appeal.

But to me, the most surprising point of the interview came in answers to the first 3 questions:

QuoteQuote:
How is it affecting the purchase of Pentax by Ricoh to the catalog of both companies? What degree of integration between the two is occurring?

Each company has its own catalog of cameras. In some categories may be tending to strengthen the bond between the two brands, but generally each will remain independent with respect to the products.

So what will remain compact, SLR and mirrorless cameras from Pentax and compact models GXR from Ricoh?

Not necessarily. For example: in the compact both brands coexist, so we have to find the best solution. It is something that is being studied.

Could take the compact Pentax simpler and more advanced models for Ricoh?

It is one of the possibilities, but nothing has been decided. What we can say at this time is that the range of interchangeable lens cameras from Pentax will continue.
Really, Pentax/Ricoh? A year into this and you're still trying to come up with a product strategy for the two entities? I know it takes time to implement merger plans, but I can't believe anyone would do a $100M deal without a sound strategy in place. Even on the most basic question of what product category goes to which brand, they admit "nothing has been decided?" Not a good sign.
10-01-2012, 07:08 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I've lost interest to modern Pentax gears.
You are not alone...
A lot of serious Pentax users whom I know personally and who have an extensive collection of serious glass and the current cameras have for a time used other brands and systems. There are a lot of other gear out there that performs a lot better than Pentax and readily available. Perhaps most still using legacy stuff remain loyal Pentax users still faithfully using long discontinued models and still hark to the glory days of Pentax 35mm film cameras.

Where I am, many have long ditched their old manual lenses and now with the lack of clear focus from Pentax will undoubtably either jump ship or just keep their Pentax gear to a bare minimum. People will hang on to their Pentax gear simply because it's cheap...

To me the K-01 has hit an evolutionary dead end. No firmware updates to date means support for this product is not even on the agenda. Similarly the Pentax Q has not got any meaningful firmware update so far, a clear indication that K-01 and Q owners got screwed. I'm sure Q10 owners will get the same treatment in this regard. The K-5 II and K-5IIs should have been announced a year ago and the lenses announced show a appalling lack of focus on what the market wants.

People still discussing about an affordable Pentax FF are in desperate denial - Pentax can't even roll out a working prototype, much less a production model, what more an affordable production model... while the competition have surged even further ahead. All in all, the pathetic product announcements from Pentax have relegated it to a backwater brand.
10-01-2012, 08:06 PM   #28
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This from Onfoto.ru, the interview posted by ogl some time ago:

QuoteQuote:
DK: I have heard that you can make specifically designed lenses for the K-01, with back flange put inside the camera body, to minimize the overall dimensions of the body+lens system. Do you have a roadmap for such lenses?

SW: We showed this concept model at the show, we'd like to have some feedback from the users, but for now we don't have many. Currently, we don't plan to launch this kind of lenses for K-01. We don't want to eliminate the possibility, but for today we don't have much feedback. If it increases, of course there is a possibility to launch this kind of lenses.


DK: How do you see the future for DSLRs, CSCs and compact cameras, how do you think they will develop? You already said that the Pentax Q is very important. Do you think that the traditional DSLRs will die or become a geek product?

SW: We think that if you see the market globally, the mirrorless share is very limited, most of the markets have good percentage of the DSLR cameras. These tendencies will continue so we hope the DSLRs will not die. We think that in Russia, you have many rich people, so this kind of people want to have status cameras.
The first question, which probably relates to the "lens model" presented at CP+, did not receive much "feedback" from home market therefore "they're still thinking if it's worth making". So there - FF, DA* fixes, new lenses and everything - if the home market does not "respond well", well, we are all screwed, lol.

Second question is somewhat confusing, since he was like talking about DSLRs and the K-01 at the same time. The latter part of the answer sounded like stereotyping a market. Kind of like saying, to put it in another way, "We'll continue to sell entry-level models and cheaper cameras in developing countries because they don't have many rich people, who will want status cameras".
10-01-2012, 10:07 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
You are not alone...
A lot of serious Pentax users whom I know personally and who have an extensive collection of serious glass and the current cameras have for a time used other brands and systems. There are a lot of other gear out there that performs a lot better than Pentax and readily available. Perhaps most still using legacy stuff remain loyal Pentax users still faithfully using long discontinued models and still hark to the glory days of Pentax 35mm film cameras.

Where I am, many have long ditched their old manual lenses and now with the lack of clear focus from Pentax will undoubtably either jump ship or just keep their Pentax gear to a bare minimum. People will hang on to their Pentax gear simply because it's cheap...

To me the K-01 has hit an evolutionary dead end. No firmware updates to date means support for this product is not even on the agenda. Similarly the Pentax Q has not got any meaningful firmware update so far, a clear indication that K-01 and Q owners got screwed. I'm sure Q10 owners will get the same treatment in this regard. The K-5 II and K-5IIs should have been announced a year ago and the lenses announced show a appalling lack of focus on what the market wants.

People still discussing about an affordable Pentax FF are in desperate denial - Pentax can't even roll out a working prototype, much less a production model, what more an affordable production model... while the competition have surged even further ahead. All in all, the pathetic product announcements from Pentax have relegated it to a backwater brand.
Hmm.....wasn't expecting that response from you....who has always shown enthusiasm towards Pentax and at times defend the Pentax brand in some of the threads here in PF.
10-01-2012, 10:19 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Buy a K5 - it's cheap now that it is discontinued - and you'll see the performance of your 6 primes increased
Already sold K-5 Without regret.
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