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10-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? Didn't Nikon and Canon both enter a new mount within the last six months, as you're aware?

They don't think it's too late, but you think it's too late for Pentax...? (I agree that it's a bad idea, but I don't think it's 'too late')
Pentax put out the Q mount. I am not sure what Canon was thinking by calling a new mount, M. Maybe Leica will let them get going really good with and tag them in court like Honeywell did Minolta and others on AF.

10-08-2012, 10:57 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? Didn't Nikon and Canon both enter a new mount within the last six months, as you're aware?

They don't think it's too late, but you think it's too late for Pentax...? (I agree that it's a bad idea, but I don't think it's 'too late')
Pentax put out the Q mount which may have cost them precious time in the small milc arena. Multitple small mounts by a company the size of Pentax doesn't make much sense. I am not sure what Canon was thinking by calling a new mount, M. Maybe Leica will let them get going really good with and tag them in court like Honeywell did Minolta and others on AF.
10-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
I am not sure what Canon was thinking by calling a new mount, M. Maybe Leica will let them get going really good with and tag them in court like Honeywell did Minolta and others on AF.
Canon's new mount is called EF-M. Their new system is called EOS M. The M is just added to their existing mount/system names, it's not the whole name.
10-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
They don't think it's too late, but you think it's too late for Pentax...? (I agree that it's a bad idea, but I don't think it's 'too late')
It is late, but not too late. However, to make a new system appealing now, one would have to get a lot of things right. Camera style and features, lenses, AF performance... It would be very hard to get all things right.

QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
Pentax isn't Canon or Nikon. If those two wanted to bust out a pro-mirrorless and complete new lens line-up for it in a span of two years they could. They're being slow on mirrorless on purpose, and they can afford to wait.
They are slow on purpose but they couldn't probably do otherwise. If they would start investing in a mirrorless system, all their current DSLR users would cry foul and would not understand the move (as we can see here where many users want the K mount to continue to be used and think that an adapter would be something awful). As it is, Canon is waiting for their users to ask them to build such system. At least, Canon has its system sketched in the EOS M, but Nikon is still without a solution - their Nikon 1 system cannot replace their SLR line.

10-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #125
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Looks as though Canon have screwed up with the EOS-M (the "M" stands for "mirrorless", I'm fairly certain) - the glacial autofocus that was noted in pre-production models seems to have made it into production. Clearly they want a slice of the pie but want to keep their range tightly segmented. Reminds me of IBM in the bad old days: crippling PCs so as not to encroach on their minicomputer sales and, in turn, crippling mincomputers so as to protect their mainframe business.

Nikon, of course, have a DSLR business to protect as well, but they did something a bit different with the 1. As a tool for taking pictures of your children it may actually be the best tool for the job. It was horribly overpriced when released, but is fairly reasonable now. Nikon are even bringing out a fast prime for it.

Sony look to be playing a smarter game. Given that they're a distant third in the DSLR market, they clearly don't care if NEX sales encroach on DSLR sales (or RX sales on NEX for that matter) - they're still selling expensive cameras.

Back to the K-01. What we could have had: something styled like a film-era classic (a Super Program D, if you like; it worked for Olympus) and the same size. What we got...
10-08-2012, 07:10 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
Looks as though Canon have screwed up with the EOS-M
Note that EOS-M is really a system. They can afford to cripple the first camera as they are not in a hurry to get anywhere with it.

QuoteOriginally posted by top-quark Quote
As a tool for taking pictures of your children it may actually be the best tool for the job.
It probably is for those that cannot figure out how to use the best tools for the job.
10-09-2012, 06:59 AM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Nope, I thin its the first one. Look at the posts of people who bought one on this forum. People complained about all Pentax DSLR's, that there are problems, bugs, etc. But there are almost no complaints about the K-01, from actual owners. And it is heavier than the K-r, but it is better built.
It really is sad that the photographer community isn't mature enough for a camera like the K-01. The main complaint is always the design. The only valid complaints are lack of VF (but that's just something you have to deal with, its not the end of the world) and maybe odd red and green button placement, which requires a slightly different grip if you want to use those buttons on the go.
I agree that the only valid complaints are lack of VF.

Same for the Q.

These two cameras are indoors only effectively crippling the cameras as general tools.

As a first step all Ricoh needs to do is to add a viewfinder electrical connection compatible with the GXR VF2 to the K-01 and the Q. They missed the boat with the Q10.

That said, current camera designers in Japan seem to think that eye level viewfinders are passe. We need to thank Panasonic, Olympus, Ricoh, and Sony for developing cameras with eye level EVFs, integrated or add on. Add Fuji to that list as well as Nikon for the V1. We should thank Epson for the LCDs used in the viewfinders. We need to ridicule Pentax (under Hoya) and Canon for mirrorless designs without EVFs.
10-09-2012, 07:04 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by GXRUser Quote
These two cameras are indoors only effectively crippling the cameras as general tools
Absolutely incorrect.

10-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
This is so TRUE.
I dare say most people on this forum have never even seen a Ricoh GXR up close much less even used one before. They therefore have no inkling whatsoever how capable and easy to use the GXR is. Besides, who wants to use so-so K-mount lenses when there are so many superb M mount lenses that can be used with the GXR Mount A12.
I have a GXR, P10, and M mount. I love it.

I have 2 M mount lenses, 2 screw mount lenses and they are superb. I also have 3 OM lenses that I use.

The GXR is a superb platform for manual focus lenses.

However, as I age, my vision is more limited. It is more difficult for me to focus, especially with a moving subject. I anticipate the need to rely on autofocus lenses in the future. The P10 does that now, but I prefer to use a larger sensor and I do not want a dSLR due to size and weight. I do want the advantage of fast phase detect autofocus though. I want an eye level viewfinder. I would like a larger sensor as well.

There are some options on the market.

Sony Nex 6. New introduction of hybrid phase/contrast autofocus. I can use my current lenses with adapters and have focus peaking to assist with manual focus. The Sony EVFs have been superb.

Nikon V1. Very limited lens selection and juvenile user controls.

Fuji XE1: no Raw support due to unique sensor.

K-01: no EVF

Q: no EVF, no focus peaking, no shake reduction with adapted lenses (we do not know if the firmware for the K adapter will allow shake reduction with other adpaters)

That leaves the conclusion that the best solution for me is for Ricoh-Pentax to develop a KAF module for the GXR. I could then use the Pentax DA or FA limited lenses in autofocus on the GXR with it's superb user interface. I would still have the P10 for when I need a very compact package, and the M module for use with my other legacy manual focus lenses. I note, that I could use DA lenses today on the GXR with the novoflex adapter with aperture control ring, but that would be with manual focus only. That would be a very reasonable solution if I had FA and DA lenses already. A K-02 with an EVF would be a reasonable solution as well.

Note that the Nex6 with a Novoflex adapter would also allow the use of Pentax DA and FA limited lenses in manual mode.
10-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #130
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Like monochrome, I also have no problem using the K-01 in bright sunlight. I look at the scene with my own eyes (the brightest viewfinder I've ever used!) and only really need to use the LCD for framing. It's a matter of personal preference, but to imply it's not usable outdoors is going a bit far, I think.

About this line of cameras not being continued, I'm not really surprised. By its very nature it's aimed at people with Pentax lenses, and further restricted in appeal by not having any option for an EVF. They should have at least given users the option of buying one. Why wouldn't they want to sell a pricy accessory like an EVF? That was a big mistake in my opinion. I just don't think it has enough general appeal to draw people into Pentax and I think the new management realised this from the beginning. They hardly marketed it in Japan whereas they gave the K-30 a massive TV advertising campaign just a few months later.

Having said that, if you want a second body which complements rather than duplicates the function of your DSLR, the K-01 is an absolute bargain at its current prices. I saw one for 29,800 yen body only this weekend. Pay a bit more and you can get the DA 40XS with it. Can it get any cheaper? The X-5 and any number of feeble point and shoot cameras cost more. The K-01 uses K-mount lenses and the K-5 battery, so it won't be unsupported any time soon.

As a side note, I went on a sightseeing trip this weekend here in Japan. I saw a wide range of mirrorless cameras (about half) of all brands, but I was surprised to see a couple of EOS M cameras already. The EOS M concept might be boring and it may have its limitations, but it seems to be what people want. Happily, I saw a GXRs, K-mounts and one Q as well.
10-09-2012, 08:11 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by GXRUser Quote
That leaves the conclusion that the best solution for me is for Ricoh-Pentax to develop a KAF module for the GXR.
The GXR is great and I would really consider getting one if they were a more aggressive about launching new modules. How about an RX100-like zoom module with a 1 inch sensor, or even just a direct successor to the S10 module? A longer fast prime suitable for portrait work would be an obvious choice. The only rumour I've heard is a 17mm equivalent unit (can't remember the original sours, but it seemed very tenuous).

I'm skeptical about an autofocus K-mount unit. The GXR units don't have a lot of space in them for the motors, aperture couplings and SR. They'd also have to fit a processor in there. But I do think there will be more K-mount capable mirrorless cameras from Pentax. They just aren't planning a direct follow-up to the K-01.
10-09-2012, 08:24 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
...if you want a second body which complements rather than duplicates the function of your DSLR, the K-01 is an absolute bargain at its current prices.
This is exactly why I bought a K-01. For me, the K-01 is a bit of a stop gap, as well as a move towards the future. It will become my carry-to-work camera...my video camera...my high ISO camera. I plan to keep using my K10D at 100ISO for most of my serious photography for the time being...but eventually replace it with whatever Pentax's top-end camera is at the time I'm ready to buy.
10-09-2012, 08:44 AM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
This is exactly why I bought a K-01. For me, the K-01 is a bit of a stop gap, as well as a move towards the future. It will become my carry-to-work camera...my video camera...my high ISO camera. I plan to keep using my K10D at 100ISO for most of my serious photography for the time being...but eventually replace it with whatever Pentax's top-end camera is at the time I'm ready to buy.
Amazing. I have precisely the same gear, for rpecisely the same reason. And the K-01 serves me very well as I use it.

My only issue now (and on another thread I have expressed a degree of boredom with photography as a hobby generally) is the ridiculous amount of legacy gear I also own.
10-09-2012, 09:19 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My only issue now (and on another thread I have expressed a degree of boredom with photography as a hobby generally) is the ridiculous amount of legacy gear I also own.
LOL Except for the boredom with photography, this is something else we have in common. I have a lot of legacy gear, also...which is another one of the reasons I chose the K-01.
10-09-2012, 09:50 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
(and on another thread I have expressed a degree of boredom with photography as a hobby generally) is the ridiculous amount of legacy gear I also own.
Well, If you want to unload your K135, I am here to help you out

See what a nice guy I am
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