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10-02-2012, 03:28 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I suspect Ricoh will emulate Subaru as a long term brand strategy, first attempting to attract young users by being different, rugged, outdoorsy, eco-conscious (the Subaru Layfayette, IN plant is a Wildlife Preservation Area and a zero-landfill manufacturing facility). At first a Pentax camera will be weird, rugged, geeky, not for typical Yuppie American disposable income people, over-engineered, marketed word-of-mouth. Like a Subaru, there will be apparent faults and criticisms (comfort, ride, quirky user interface) that won't matter to geeky buyers (they're actually a badge of honor). Over time, as volume rises, these faults will gradually be improved upon while the essential character of the product (boxer engine, AWD, styling cues, ad-line) are retained and developed.

If done correctly PRICL CAN rejuvenate Pentax - but it is a long-term project (20 years), not a quick fix, all is well thing.

Contrary to the postings on "Home-Market" centrism, I still say a company does not assign Americas to the Global President and send his hand-picked operating wizard to fix things unless North America is a viital part of the repair strategy.

P.S. Driving my third Subaru (2004 Outback SE 6) and see no reason to change it. Dring my fourth bought-new Pentax (Black K-01, and probably the twentieth ever bought) and see no reason to change it, either.
You paint such an optimistic picture but using your imperfect car analogy, Pentax/Ricoh will never emulate the likes of Subaru. Subaru today is allied to Toyota so unless Pentax/Ricoh ever gets acquired (like the ailing Konica/Minolta was gobbled up by Sony) it will never hope to rise to compete on the bigger stage.

The fact that you are not even using a current model of Subaru is telling because it mirrors the deep hole Pentax the company is in... a brand that has a loyal but ageing user base that's dwindling, one that is content to stick to a model but see no reason to change. Pentax/Ricoh just doesn't have 20 years to turn around, much less 2 years. It will remain the brand of a minority...

As for Ned Bunnell... seriously, who gives any weight to what the ex-head of a company has to say. He was engineered out of his job because in all probability he didn't deliver on his KPI.


Last edited by creampuff; 10-02-2012 at 03:36 PM.
10-02-2012, 04:30 PM   #17
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Great analogy Monochrome and one I've subscribed to for twenty years with Subaru. 93 with 208k with my son, plus 08 OBS and 09 Leggy. Our mechanic says an easy 400k on the 93 if conservatively maintained. Frankly, I'll just concentrate on learning CS6 and LR4 in retirement. So much to learn and so little time.
10-02-2012, 04:40 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
The fact that you are not even using a current model of Subaru is telling because it mirrors the deep hole Pentax the company is in
In my humble opinion: the logic sounded really lame. And you sounded overly pessimistic.

Last edited by momotazur; 10-02-2012 at 04:58 PM.
10-02-2012, 04:48 PM - 2 Likes   #19
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I think that pentax is on right path. My first DSLR was k-x and as a novice photographer I think it is more important to upgrade my lenses than my camera. Nevertheless, k-30 is the better than any similar priced offering from the competitors and such differential offering never happened in the past. This should attract a lot new photographers.

10-02-2012, 06:33 PM   #20
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About the most interesting thing Ned said was:

QuoteQuote:
PENTAX was very kind to let me keep some equipment. Of course the three lenses that I couldn't part with are the FA Limiteds - 31mm, 43mm and 77mm.
I wonder if they were MIJ and if they were earlier serial # lenses.
10-02-2012, 06:36 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
I get the sense that a fair number of forum members won't be satisfied until Noboru Akahane personally forges God's Own FF Camera from lightning, earth, and John Carson's bones.
I keep telling you, Ricoh has a plan .....
10-02-2012, 06:41 PM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I keep telling you, Ricoh has a plan .....
They also had one when they killed the K-mount the first time. I just hope they have a good plan they can implement quickly. A good plan implemented right away is better than the perfect plan implemented too late.
10-02-2012, 06:43 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I keep telling you, Ricoh has a plan .....
Hoya had a plan for Pentax too......

10-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #24
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QuoteQuote:
You mean in the same way how we send lepers to secluded islands?
I think you're on to something.

guess all you dudes would be happier if he'd said Ricoh didn't have a plan. Then you could say... "I told you so. " But he didn't . so all you can do is whine and bitch , about things you know nothing about, because he didn't say what the plan is. Hey, Ricoh has a plan. Lets talk about something we think we know about like, hey, how about Subaru, since we know next to nothing about Ricoh's plan. Actually the only things we know about Subaru's plan are second or third hand and as much after the fact observations than comments on any real plan. But that shouldn't stop us. God knows, if Pentax has a plan it must be bad. Look at all the plans they've had in the last 30 years. All of them bad, odds are the next one will be bad too.

I guess the thing is not that Ricoh has a plan, it's that they are optimistic they can turn things around. Whether that optimism is well founded is another thing. They are willing to give it a shot. Hoya gave it a shot. Their vision didn't turn out to be the right one. Ricoh will give it a shot. Maybe there's will, maybe it won't. But it's always interesting to see someone else willing to try. What all the negativity is about I have no idea.

I'm looking to buying a 15 ltd, a 31, 41 and 77, a Sigma 8-16, a Tamron 10-24 and a Tamron 70-200 2.8.And now the wife wants the new DA (Tamron) 18-270. We still haven't decided on what we want to replace the kit lens. But we have decided we want a K-5 IIs.

So if Pentax has a plan I hope they don't do anything radical before I've completed the current phase of my plan. With the 18-270 and K-5 IIs comeing out, I'm falling behind faster than I'm fulfilling my plan. If they release any new plans I'm going to feel buried under all these plans.

I CAN'T AFFORD A NEW PLAN.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

Last edited by normhead; 10-02-2012 at 07:02 PM.
10-02-2012, 06:51 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
You paint such an optimistic picture but using your imperfect car analogy, Pentax/Ricoh will never emulate the likes of Subaru. Subaru today is allied to Toyota
Toyota purchased 11.8% of Fuji Heavy Industries from GM during the crash, in part as a form of compensation for shuttering the NUMMI joint plant in Cal. and 5.1% more in the open market. Subaru has an underutilized plant in Indiana that will build the joint 2-seater sports car. Toyota has NO spare manufacturing capacity in the US since NUMMI has closed - they wanted the manufacturing plant. Subaru is no more integrated into Toyota than Pentax cameras are into Ricoh)
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
so unless Pentax/Ricoh ever gets acquired (like the ailing Konica/Minolta was gobbled up by Sony) it will never hope to rise to compete on the bigger stage.

The fact that you are not even using a current model of Subaru
For what reason should I turn over a car rated to go 250,000 miles when I've only driven it 74,xxx? I bought it for the over-engineering and durability
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
is telling because it mirrors the deep hole Pentax the company is in
Subaru was the only profitable auto company on Earth in 2009 - so it can't be a mirror yet unless Pentax is actually profitable
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
... a brand that has a loyal but ageing user base that's dwindling, one that is content to stick to a model but see no reason to change. Pentax/Ricoh just doesn't have 20 years to turn around, much less 2 years. It will remain the brand of a minority...
as is Subaru - just less so since 2005, when they decided to move a bit upscale, broader appeal and more mainstream. Sounds kinda like what Ricoh wants for Pentax, doesn't it?
QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote

As for Ned Bunnell... seriously, who gives any weight to what the ex-head of a company has to say. He was engineered out of his job because in all probability he didn't deliver on his KPI.
10-02-2012, 06:58 PM - 1 Like   #26
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I remember Ned Bunnell. He was the one who increased the prices of Pentax lenses and then claimed the prices weren't increased. Can't take the guy seriously any more.
10-02-2012, 07:18 PM - 1 Like   #27
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Pointless point made by Ned.

When there is $120million involved, of course there is a plan.
I won't even say its a good or bad plan. Its just a plan, and everone thinks their plan is the best one.
However, wheather this plan is in line with you the consumer/hobbist is another matter.

So in the end, Ned Bunnell has played his flute and led the merry mouse around another round the merry go round.


To be clear.
My stand point on this whole Photokina2012/Ricoh/Pentax thing is this.
1. Good viable updates
2. No 'ego boosting' releases (Those who need to show off the latest and greatest probably need to buy that D600 or XE1, yeah, they are good for what they are)
3. The handover/re-alignment slowed things down a lot
4. K5 and lenses take good pictures now. Did so too 2yrs ago, and will too for quite a few years to come (K5IIs looks to be far better too)
5. Digital stuff is improving at a very fast rate. Last years Apple is yesterdays Motorola. Me as a consumer can't keep changing systems for what looks to be the next best thing. I'm the final limiter of my photography and this is even more true nowadays with every brand having 'like' performance cameras.
6. I'm no westerner with the luxury of touring in a car. Every tour I do is on foot, in packed trains/buses. For this, I love APS-C and small Pentax cameras+lenses.

Last edited by pinholecam; 10-02-2012 at 08:37 PM.
10-02-2012, 07:36 PM   #28
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Exactly pinholecam. Ned Bunnell is irrelevant.
10-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I think you're on to something.

guess all you dudes would be happier if he'd said Ricoh didn't have a plan. Then you could say... "I told you so. " But he didn't . so all you can do is whine and bitch , about things you know nothing about, because he didn't say what the plan is. Hey, Ricoh has a plan. Lets talk about something we think we know about like, hey, how about Subaru, since we know next to nothing about Ricoh's plan. Actually the only things we know about Subaru's plan are second or third hand and as much after the fact observations than comments on any real plan. But that shouldn't stop us. God knows, if Pentax has a plan it must be bad. Look at all the plans they've had in the last 30 years. All of them bad, odds are the next one will be bad too.

I guess the thing is not that Ricoh has a plan, it's that they are optimistic they can turn things around. Whether that optimism is well founded is another thing. They are willing to give it a shot. Hoya gave it a shot. Their vision didn't turn out to be the right one. Ricoh will give it a shot. Maybe there's will, maybe it won't. But it's always interesting to see someone else willing to try. What all the negativity is about I have no idea.

I'm looking to buying a 15 ltd, a 31, 41 and 77, a Sigma 8-16, a Tamron 10-24 and a Tamron 70-200 2.8.And now the wife wants the new DA (Tamron) 18-270. We still haven't decided on what we want to replace the kit lens. But we have decided we want a K-5 IIs.

So if Pentax has a plan I hope they don't do anything radical before I've completed the current phase of my plan. With the 18-270 and K-5 IIs comeing out, I'm falling behind faster than I'm fulfilling my plan. If they release any new plans I'm going to feel buried under all these plans.

I CAN'T AFFORD A NEW PLAN.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

Sounds like you have a plan.
10-02-2012, 08:33 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
Ned Bunnell is irrelevant.
Indeed. He was only ever relevant to North America anyhow.

I'm more interested in what Clem Kennedy of our local [Australian] Pentax distributor CR Kennedy has to say . His family company is the first and oldest distributor in the world for Pentax. But Clem never talks.
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