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11-04-2012, 11:57 AM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I have to say Blue, that's the one thing that would get me back into film would be the chance to shoot with a 4x5 view camera. There's a place in Toronto that would process my film, so it would be doable. The digital scanning back for said camera is $17,000 and takes 300 MP files. If there's one thing I hate about digital it's the lack of large sensors. And that's not a minor complaint. That's major. But I also don't have 17 grand to blow on a scanning back, and scanning backs take very long exposures 52 seconds to 15000 seconds depending on exposure. For landscapes, your light could change while you're taking the picture. People talk about having more control with FF have obviously never used a view camera with tilting rotating fronts and backs. Now that's control.
95% of my work related stuff is with digital and have to honestly say that I do the film stuff mostly for fun.

11-04-2012, 12:34 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
2) there isn't a 6 x 7 digital in my price range and certainly not a large format
Pentax is doomed if they don't bring out a 67D this year!

Seriously, a 6x7 would probably make more sense as a mirrorless camera, wouldn't it? (to avoid mirror shake and keep size down)
11-04-2012, 12:49 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Pentax is doomed if they don't bring out a 67D this year!

Seriously, a 6x7 would probably make more sense as a mirrorless camera, wouldn't it? (to avoid mirror shake and keep size down)
And abandon the magnificent viewfinder you'd get with a mirror ?
Not for me. But I wouldn't ditch the idea as being silly. Just not my take on things.
11-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
95% of my work related stuff is with digital and have to honestly say that I do the film stuff mostly for fun.
Same here. I do digital because I must and is convenient. I do film because that's how I really enjoy photography. Even though film comes with its own burden. A pity a good film scanner (MF or 4x5) is hugely priced &

Canon 9000F is said to be quite OK with 4x5... I still fancy darkroom. Even though it takes many more hours than digital. It's just not the same things.

11-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
And abandon the magnificent viewfinder you'd get with a mirror ?
If I had the money to buy a 645D, I'd certainly want it with a mirror. But the 67 is more prone to mirror shake, isn't it?
11-04-2012, 12:57 PM   #171
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OK then imaging this.. a 6x7 sensor as a view camera with an iPad size screen on the back with retina display for the viewfinder, used as in live view. Rotating and tilting front and back both of which can be raised and lowered, and 100 to 150 Mp output. To me, that would be a camera worth looking into.
11-04-2012, 01:01 PM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by blacknosugar Quote
Exposure latitude and dynamic range are not the same thing.
Digital actually has a pretty narrow slide-like latitude.
Mmm I'm not sure about that but I'm willing to get more about the issue.
IMO, it's pretty comparable, if not the same.
As for narrow slide-like latitude, I think this is a thing of the past.
Sensor as the K5's sensor really are marvels.
I dunno if the digital is better, but digital isn't anymore near slide.
11-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
If I had the money to buy a 645D, I'd certainly want it with a mirror. But the 67 is more prone to mirror shake, isn't it?
Not if you have mirror lock up.

11-05-2012, 12:23 AM   #174
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Now if they could only add darkroom smells to digital cameras that would help. I have a trailer load of 6x7 Mamiya and darkroom gear just rotting away.

David
11-11-2012, 02:32 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
OK then imaging this.. a 6x7 sensor as a view camera with an iPad size screen on the back with retina display for the viewfinder, used as in live view. Rotating and tilting front and back both of which can be raised and lowered, and 100 to 150 Mp output. To me, that would be a camera worth looking into.
In that case, be ready to let go many many grand
11-11-2012, 03:53 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
OK then imaging this.. a 6x7 sensor as a view camera with an iPad size screen on the back with retina display for the viewfinder, used as in live view. Rotating and tilting front and back both of which can be raised and lowered, and 100 to 150 Mp output. To me, that would be a camera worth looking into.
iPad mini would be already great, but I do get the concept. Large sensils, like in D600 would only give 108 megapixel. Probably that would be more then enough to work with.

Should a camera like that not have AF? Mirrorless probably would be a very goos solution.
11-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #177
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If you have a dio
QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Should a camera like that not have AF? Mirrorless probably would be a very goos solution.
The whole point of a camera like that is to be able to align your film plane with your subject and to have complete control over the angle of the focal plane. I'm not sure you can ever completely automate that. But cameras even now have trouble deciding in 2D what should be in focus. Add front and back elevation and lift and rotation to the process and I'm not sure you could even write a algorithm that could process that. I guess if you have one of those monster computers IBM taught to play chess, and a very good team of programmers. But it's unlikely it would ever be completely auto-fucus. You would have to have some way of telling the computer what you want it to do. Like selecting 3 points you want in focus in an image and telling the computer to do the math. But another advantage to tilt is aligning the film plane for capturing vertical faces in landscape and for keeping building lines parallel in acrhcitecture. If you look at camera equipment, fixed front and back parallel to each other is a very simple system. If you look at the possibilities of a view camera, only a very small percentage of landscape and architectural shots taken with DSLRs or even SLRs would be taken the way they are, if you were using a view camera. You really have no idea how much more flexibility you have with a view camera if you haven't used one. You also have no idea how much time you can waste trying to get the perfect picture, while learning to use one.

Or the short answer is, view cameras are the epitome of mirrorless



Look at how this camera is cranked. The lens is not parallel on (either axis)to the film plane, the lens is elevated and whatever this guy is taking a picture of, you cannot emulate that shot on fixed plane cameras.



It makes me incredulous when people talking about having more control with an FF. You get next to no control with fixed film and focal plane systems. Whichever one you choose.

WIkipedia's explanation.


QuoteQuote:
In that case, be ready to let go many many grand
My latest plan is Canon 6d with a tilt lens and an tablet computer for focus peaking connected by USB. Many thousands, but doable, as opposed to a view camera with a scanning back, which as far as I can tell is just way out of my range and too long an exposure time to be functional much of the time, even for landscapes.. But that wouldn't give me the monster resolution a view camera is capable of.

Last edited by normhead; 11-11-2012 at 08:48 AM.
11-11-2012, 09:19 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
If you have a dio
and lensbaby isn't enough I guess (but it is the same principkle I think).
11-11-2012, 10:01 AM   #179
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I haven't really spent a lot of time investigating the DSLR options because the viewfinder has to big enough to allow your evaluate your image. WIth something like an camera tethered to iPad, I think you might be getting there. The other issue is on small sensors you really need good lenses. Every tilt front for an APS-c or FF I've seen you have to use the lens that comes with it. A true view camera can use different lenses just like an SLR. It's hard to get excited about investing in a system, that only gives you one focal length. ALso it doesn raise and lower, but in the absence of laying out 20 k for a real camera, I should probably have one. How do you know what your lens quality is going to be? It's not like you can put any lens you want on that? Rotate and tilt, but no elevate. But you still need a bigger view screen.
11-11-2012, 01:17 PM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
I

It makes me incredulous when people talking about having more control with an FF. You get next to no control with fixed film and focal plane systems. Whichever one you choose.
+1 Excellent post. I'd quote all of it but that shouldn't be done
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