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10-10-2012, 11:22 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Why not emulate a WR PZ-1p?
I know someone here who would agree with that suggestion!!

10-10-2012, 11:52 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I know someone here who would agree with that suggestion!!
It has some good looking specs:

30 to 1/8000 stepless shutter

1/250s flash sync

Iso 6 to 6400
10-10-2012, 12:31 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
It has some good looking specs
That's about all that was good looking about it. The Hasselblad Lunar is more attractive.
10-10-2012, 12:58 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
AF is expensive (with an in-body motor).
And IBIS on FF is expensive if it requires lenses to cover more than 24x36mm.

Personally, I think the "digital K1000" concept makes practical sense,
although it might be hard to sell in a tech-obsessed market.
It would certainly need a good split-image screen for the MF.
Of course it's hard to sell. A full frame camera will be expensive because of the sensor anyway, so a "digital K1000" with FF sensor is almost a contradiction in terms.

The K-30 is much closer to being a digital K1000 for today.

10-10-2012, 12:59 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
That's about all that was good looking about it. The Hasselblad Lunar is more attractive.
Hey, come on, the PZ-1p may not have been everyone's taste, but at least it didn't look like a cheap prostitute!
10-10-2012, 01:40 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
...but at least it didn't look like a cheap prostitute!
You make it sound like a cheap prostitute is a bad thing.
10-10-2012, 01:42 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Hey, come on, the PZ-1p may not have been everyone's taste, but at least it didn't look like a cheap prostitute!
Didn't someone here say the Yellow K-01 looked like a cheap prostitute?
10-10-2012, 02:07 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
You make it sound like a cheap prostitute is a bad thing.


What about a tasteless gangsta rapper?

10-10-2012, 02:09 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Didn't someone here say the Yellow K-01 looked like a cheap prostitute?
Maybe, but I guess that was before the camera company that now owns the name of the famous Swedish camera company that once went to the moon abused this legacy by designing those lunatic pimped NEX-7s?
10-10-2012, 02:52 PM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
You make it sound like a cheap prostitute is a bad thing.
You just won this thread.
10-10-2012, 02:52 PM   #71
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I love it. Now maybe the forum can settle down and just take pictures.

I've been looking at splitting my work into landscape using a D800 or D600 and using my K-5 IIs for everything else. The decision making process hadn't reached critical, but it was getting there. The big problem with switching was lenses. This gives me the opportunity to building a stable of FAs while waiting for the FF to come out. It simplifies my thinking a great deal.

2014 is a long time to wait. But, I can still use those lenses while I'm waiting.

Now I can go back to thinking if I sell enough prints (not very likely), I can look at a 645D.
10-10-2012, 03:09 PM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I think only Leica can sell MF cameras these days, and of the other things you mention, nothing is really expensive compared to the FF sensor.
I'm not necessarily convinced that only Leica can sell MF cameras. Many medium format photographers have paid tens of thousands of dollars for digital backs. Tens of thousands! Just for a digital back!

I'm not convinced that only Leica can sell anything. That's loser-talk. If Pentax determines what they will and will not do simply by looking whether there are currently people purchasing a product that is made by a competitor, they will never be leaders in anything. If they have decided that they are not capable of selling products that aren't already popular (which is clearly not something they have decided), they will have resigned themselves to being followers, not leaders.

It is true that Leica has success in some areas that other companies don't because they have a powerful brand...but they have that brand because they have built it. Through offering products (or an image) people wanted. In order to do that type of thing, you have to start somewhere. Pentax has obviously chosen to start with the Q and the 645D.

In the last 5 years, there has been an onslaught of camera types that simply didn't exist previously:

Micro 4/3
High-end compacts with fixed lenses (which represent the poorest value proposition in all of photography, yet have sold like hot-cakes)
Consumer-priced high-definition action cameras (again, with fixed lenses)
Lytro
High-end mirrorless fake rangefinders (Fuji X-Pro 1)

Fuji is an interesting case, in general. The x100 is literally a terrible value proposition. It is extremely expense, and is one of the least versatile cameras out there. However, the few things it does offer (compact size, an interesting viewfinder, and exceptional image quality) are things people value enough to pay a lot of money for them.

I'm positive a minimally-featured full-frame camera with an interchangeable lenses could be made and sold for well under the cost of an X100. and, while no individual component of an SLR may cost as much as the sensor, surely the other components (autofocus system, high-speed shutter, SR system, high-speed buffer and processor) must add up to several hundred dollars.

A digital LX is a wonderful idea, too. But it seems like it would be more expensive that something with less high-end features.
10-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Despite the near universal (and I believe irrational) love for the K1000 it was a cheap, featureless abomination compared to a KM or KX.

[EDIT: IMHO] a Pentax FF should emulate the LX. A K300 might emululate a K1000 but nothing higher on the model pyrami
Abomination? Wow. That is definitely not how I felt when I was learning photography on my K1000. Maybe someone should have told me it was an abomination so I would have hated it and bought something else. Out of curiousity, have you ever used a K1000? It may have limitations, but a lot of people have enjoyed the experience of using one. I really enjoy shooting with mine. I'm sure I'd also like a KM, KX, LX, and 645D. But that doesn't mean I can't also like shooting with the K1000.

As far as a low-end full frame not taking a high place on the model pyramid, I completely agree. It's not a camera that needs to be sold as a high-end model at all. It's just something I want to use take photos.

There is, of course, always room for more than one model that can do more than one thing.
10-10-2012, 03:59 PM   #74
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I taught with a K-1000 for years. Because, you have to actually know what you're doing. I still shoot like I have a K-1000. Only the camera does a few things for me. I wouldn't even let a student touch a point and shoot until they proved they understood every thing on a K-1000. Before they could take out a K1000 they memorized the page with the 15 parts and controls and explained to me in their own words what each did. If you understand a K-1000 you know 90% of photography, no matter what system you use.

If Pentax makes a K-1000 with a digital sensor, I'd give it a look. Needle exposure system, no FA and all. They can even put that old cloth shutter in there if they choose. They can use the same layout too. People think they need all kinds of stuff they don't need. Maybe build a little electric generator that sends a charge enough for one picture into the film advance lever. As soon as it's available for pre-order, I'm signing up.
10-10-2012, 04:04 PM   #75
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I understand. It is heresy ..... Everyone is stacking wood at the stake.

QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Out of curiousity, have you ever used a K1000? It may have limitations, but a lot of people have enjoyed the experience of using one. I really enjoy shooting with mine. I'm sure I'd also like a KM, KX, LX
I don't argue the attraction and experiences so many Pentax users had starting with the K1000 - but it isn't a proper model to emulate for the nascent FF. I started on a newspaper Spotmatic SP, which was essentially a K1000 with an m42 mount. (Actually the K1000 was an SP1000 with a bayonet mount).

First personal camera (still owned) was a KX. Next was an MESuper. I appreciate the over-engineering of the 60's and 70's. I wanted to use these tools while they still existed.

In the used market since 1999 I have bought, used and (sometimes) sold a 1st-gen K1000, K1000SE, KM, K2, K2DMD, ME, MX, SF1n, LX, numerous m42 bodies and the digitals - all just for the fun of owning and using them.

The SF1n was the least fun, closely followed by the K1000. The KM and KX are the most fun. There is such a thing as too simple and too cheap.

My signature contains the Pentax gear I currently use (but much of that will be reduced soon).

Here is a post on Boz Dimitrov's page recounting a survey on the Pentax Disucss Mailing List from 2000-2001, asking the question what the members then thought was the best Pentax camera. The responses are instructive for this entire FF discussion (LX is ranked #1). Note the seventh most often mentioned - the K1000 - and Boz's response to that selection.
"This total lack of convenience features explains the cult status of the K1000 among photo students worldwide. However, it fails to explain its popularity with PDML members. I mean, do you people not miss viewfinder information on aperture and shutter speed, a self-timer, a DOF preview lever or minimal flash automation? Wouldn't a KX or a KM be a better choice?"

At the top is a robust, innovative professional camera system. At the bottom is a cultish camera for students that was cheapened over the years with plastic gears and top plate. Ricoh has stated they intend to offer a professionally competitive camera. Which do you think offers a better model for Pentax to emulate for the top-end dSLR?

Last edited by monochrome; 10-11-2012 at 10:55 AM.
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