K20D Price drop

regken · 02-06-2008, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by kdoggydog

It's not the retailers that decide intial pricing. That would be the manufacturer.

The manufacturer sets the MSRP. The dealer buys somewhere below the MSRP. The dealer can sell that item for anything they want to regardless of what the manufacture says or wants. If the dealer wants to sell it for over MSRP and they can get it, they will. MSRP stands for manufacturers SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE.

SuperAkuma · 02-06-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by regken

The manufacturer sets the MSRP. The dealer buys somewhere below the MSRP. The dealer can sell that item for anything they want to regardless of what the manufacture says or wants. If the dealer wants to sell it for over MSRP and they can get it, they will. MSRP stands for manufacturers SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE.

That is not always the case. It depends on what type of agreement that the manufacture sets with the dealer. There are some brands that can't be sold below MSRP like Ipod and Bose. You will not see it selling brand new at an AUTHORIZED dealer for below MSRP.

I do not know what the agreement pentax has with its seller but I hope that the price will fall within a few months.

nathancombs · 02-06-2008, 06:35 PM

well i bet there will be a used market in 6 mothes and there will be your true price cut i think that some poepole will sell there K20D for one reson or a neather

regken · 02-06-2008, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by SuperAkuma

That is not always the case. It depends on what type of agreement that the manufacture sets with the dealer. There are some brands that can't be sold below MSRP like Ipod and Bose. You will not see it selling brand new at an AUTHORIZED dealer for below MSRP.

I do not know what the agreement pentax has with its seller but I hope that the price will fall within a few months.

By law in the US a manufacturer cannot force a reseller to sell for a fixed price. There is a lot of BS in the marketplace regarding this issue. MAP (minimum advertised price) is an attempt at circumventing this issue and that has been a complete failure. Power tool manufacturers like DeWalt have MAP pricing and the discounters comply but then turn around and give a set of drills to go along with the tool for free.

**Sailor** · 02-06-2008, 07:02 PM

Actually, the market - not Pentax or its distributors - will ultimately dictate the price for the K20D, as it does for everything. The initial price will stay in place as long as demand supports it (Pentax will be looking for the sweet spot between margin and market share) but will drop when that price is no longer sustainable. The price almost certainly will go down, but the rate of that decrease will depend upon demand - and that's anybody's guess. Pentax's job is to maintain demand and forstall price erosion as long as possible.

Jer

**igowerf** · 02-06-2008, 07:04 PM

I imagine that the profit margin on the K20D could be lower than the K200D, because K20D would probably be more likely to buy expensive lenses.

mattdm · 02-06-2008, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by regken

By law in the US a manufacturer cannot force a reseller to sell for a fixed price.

At least, that was the case until last June, when the US Supreme Court overturned the 1911 decision that set that rule:

Minimum retail price accords allowed, U.S. Supreme Court rules - International Herald Tribune

WendyB · 02-06-2008, 10:44 PM

It is my understanding the retail rage will not drop below $1190. US in 2008

lock2nl · 02-07-2008, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

According to the Norwegian distributors web page both the K20D and the K200D is 20% more expensive than the camera they replace; the K10D and K100D respectively. So the prices are pretty competitive to start with. I expect a 20% increase over the previous models wil be the case in most other markets as well.

You mean 20% over the current or over the introduction price of the k10d/k100d ?

truonganh · 02-08-2008, 11:11 PM

Don't forget the Canikon and Sony competitive pressure. However, if the dollar continues its current weakness. i'm afraid the much dreaded stagflation will take hold and you'll pay MORE for it the longer you wait....
US market force is no longer as mighty as it once was...

superfuzzy · 02-12-2008, 08:01 AM

Originally posted by codiac2600

From what Pentax USA have said is that Hoya is very firm with their pricing and most likely will not continue the rebate program for bodies. On a side note there will be no discount for buying the Samsung clone because it costs retailers $100 more so it'll be selling for $1399 MAP pricing.

What do you expect them to say, the truth, which wholesale pricing is flexible? Pentax is not the only game in town, and in fact, not one of the top tier players. Pentax will have to react to the market makers - Canikon. If they are "firm" with their pricing, and don't react to competition, they are not going to be in the DSLR market for long!

I have a k100d and am down to three lenses, so no major investment. If Canon or Nikon offer the right camera for the right price, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat. As of today, I have no plans to switch, but if the k20d is not close to $1000 by late summer, I'll consider all of the alternatives for my next DSLR.

Crescent City · 02-12-2008, 10:15 AM

Superfuzzy makes a good point, its not just the new entrants to the dslr market that a manufacturer needs to target. The advent of ebay and to some extent craig's list and forums like this have made switching brands relatively easy and less painful than previously. Nevertheless, I think most people would just prefer to avoid the hassle. In a strange way, Pentax put itself in diffciult spot with the K10d. Compared to other brands it was simply a no brainer that it was and is (for a few weeks anyway) an outstanding value. As such, Pentax's customer base now includes a great many cost conscious users, who I hate to say are not likely to be early adopters and could easily jump ship. Of course this is all just supposition, I have no idea what percentage of new sales come from exisiting owners. I believe the growth potential for dslrs is still enormous, and to what extent you continue to attract existing cutomers may just be inconsequential. As an aside, I would love to know what percentage of revenues are accounted for by lens sales. It would seem that would be an important component to camera pricing.

For myself, my camera is almost brand new, and just how far I go with this new hobby remains to be seen. The associated costs of digital photography appear quite daunting. I can't see ever putting up the cash for CS3, even lightroom is a nail bitter. External hardrive, RAM upgrade, dual core desktop, large monitor, photocentric printer, not to mention the camera peripherals, like flash, tripod, bag, lenses. The camera itself really is just the tip of the iceburg. Unless I really take the dive on most of the foregoing, I can't see going up camerawise. But the biggest thing for me is simply time, and right now I don't have that much to spend. ch

wlachan · 02-12-2008, 10:21 AM

3 months to 900.

codiac2600 · 02-12-2008, 08:11 PM

I don't understand anyones reasoning to switch because of price not being less than $1000...

If thats the case then switch now.

superfuzzy · 02-12-2008, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by codiac2600

I don't understand anyones reasoning to switch because of price not being less than $1000...

If thats the case then switch now.

I'm not in the market for a camera at the moment, but I will be this summer. I wrote:
if the k20d is not close to $1000 by late summer, I'll consider all of the alternatives for my next DSLR.

In other words, if the k20d comes down a bit, based on what is known about the k20d, it will be a no brainer to grab one, but if the price stays in the same range, I'll look at alternatives before plunking down 12 or $1,300. I like my Pentax gear, but in the end a camera is just a tool, and I'll buy the best tool to meet my needs. If I did jump ship, it would be to Canon (Nikon - less likely). If normal market conditions prevail, I expect to get a k20d mid summer

02-12-2008, 08:01 AM	#26
superfuzzy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NJ, USA (close to NYC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 278	Originally posted by codiac2600 From what Pentax USA have said is that Hoya is very firm with their pricing and most likely will not continue the rebate program for bodies. On a side note there will be no discount for buying the Samsung clone because it costs retailers $100 more so it'll be selling for $1399 MAP pricing. What do you expect them to say, the truth, which wholesale pricing is flexible? Pentax is not the only game in town, and in fact, not one of the top tier players. Pentax will have to react to the market makers - Canikon. If they are "firm" with their pricing, and don't react to competition, they are not going to be in the DSLR market for long! I have a k100d and am down to three lenses, so no major investment. If Canon or Nikon offer the right camera for the right price, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat. As of today, I have no plans to switch, but if the k20d is not close to $1000 by late summer, I'll consider all of the alternatives for my next DSLR. Last edited by superfuzzy; 02-12-2008 at 08:12 AM.

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02-06-2008, 05:22 PM	#16
regken Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangor, Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,377	Originally posted by kdoggydog It's not the retailers that decide intial pricing. That would be the manufacturer. The manufacturer sets the MSRP. The dealer buys somewhere below the MSRP. The dealer can sell that item for anything they want to regardless of what the manufacture says or wants. If the dealer wants to sell it for over MSRP and they can get it, they will. MSRP stands for manufacturers SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE.

02-06-2008, 06:30 PM	#17
SuperAkuma Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bay Area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 445	Originally posted by regken The manufacturer sets the MSRP. The dealer buys somewhere below the MSRP. The dealer can sell that item for anything they want to regardless of what the manufacture says or wants. If the dealer wants to sell it for over MSRP and they can get it, they will. MSRP stands for manufacturers SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE. That is not always the case. It depends on what type of agreement that the manufacture sets with the dealer. There are some brands that can't be sold below MSRP like Ipod and Bose. You will not see it selling brand new at an AUTHORIZED dealer for below MSRP. I do not know what the agreement pentax has with its seller but I hope that the price will fall within a few months.

02-06-2008, 06:35 PM	#18
nathancombs Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Waysboro va Photos: Gallery Posts: 517	well i bet there will be a used market in 6 mothes and there will be your true price cut i think that some poepole will sell there K20D for one reson or a neather

02-06-2008, 06:54 PM	#19
regken Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bangor, Maine Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,377	Originally posted by SuperAkuma That is not always the case. It depends on what type of agreement that the manufacture sets with the dealer. There are some brands that can't be sold below MSRP like Ipod and Bose. You will not see it selling brand new at an AUTHORIZED dealer for below MSRP. I do not know what the agreement pentax has with its seller but I hope that the price will fall within a few months. By law in the US a manufacturer cannot force a reseller to sell for a fixed price. There is a lot of BS in the marketplace regarding this issue. MAP (minimum advertised price) is an attempt at circumventing this issue and that has been a complete failure. Power tool manufacturers like DeWalt have MAP pricing and the discounters comply but then turn around and give a set of drills to go along with the tool for free.

02-06-2008, 07:02 PM	#20
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,203	Actually, the market - not Pentax or its distributors - will ultimately dictate the price for the K20D, as it does for everything. The initial price will stay in place as long as demand supports it (Pentax will be looking for the sweet spot between margin and market share) but will drop when that price is no longer sustainable. The price almost certainly will go down, but the rate of that decrease will depend upon demand - and that's anybody's guess. Pentax's job is to maintain demand and forstall price erosion as long as possible. Jer

02-06-2008, 07:04 PM	#21
igowerf Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 486	I imagine that the profit margin on the K20D could be lower than the K200D, because K20D would probably be more likely to buy expensive lenses.

02-06-2008, 07:29 PM	#22
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by regken By law in the US a manufacturer cannot force a reseller to sell for a fixed price. At least, that was the case until last June, when the US Supreme Court overturned the 1911 decision that set that rule: Minimum retail price accords allowed, U.S. Supreme Court rules - International Herald Tribune

02-06-2008, 10:44 PM	#23
WendyB Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, Michigan Posts: 189	It is my understanding the retail rage will not drop below $1190. US in 2008

02-07-2008, 05:44 AM	#24
lock2nl Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 48	Originally posted by Pål Jensen According to the Norwegian distributors web page both the K20D and the K200D is 20% more expensive than the camera they replace; the K10D and K100D respectively. So the prices are pretty competitive to start with. I expect a 20% increase over the previous models wil be the case in most other markets as well. You mean 20% over the current or over the introduction price of the k10d/k100d ?

02-08-2008, 11:11 PM	#25
truonganh Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bay area, CA Photos: Gallery Posts: 194	Don't forget the Canikon and Sony competitive pressure. However, if the dollar continues its current weakness. i'm afraid the much dreaded stagflation will take hold and you'll pay MORE for it the longer you wait.... US market force is no longer as mighty as it once was...

02-12-2008, 10:15 AM	#27
Crescent City Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 55	Superfuzzy makes a good point, its not just the new entrants to the dslr market that a manufacturer needs to target. The advent of ebay and to some extent craig's list and forums like this have made switching brands relatively easy and less painful than previously. Nevertheless, I think most people would just prefer to avoid the hassle. In a strange way, Pentax put itself in diffciult spot with the K10d. Compared to other brands it was simply a no brainer that it was and is (for a few weeks anyway) an outstanding value. As such, Pentax's customer base now includes a great many cost conscious users, who I hate to say are not likely to be early adopters and could easily jump ship. Of course this is all just supposition, I have no idea what percentage of new sales come from exisiting owners. I believe the growth potential for dslrs is still enormous, and to what extent you continue to attract existing cutomers may just be inconsequential. As an aside, I would love to know what percentage of revenues are accounted for by lens sales. It would seem that would be an important component to camera pricing. For myself, my camera is almost brand new, and just how far I go with this new hobby remains to be seen. The associated costs of digital photography appear quite daunting. I can't see ever putting up the cash for CS3, even lightroom is a nail bitter. External hardrive, RAM upgrade, dual core desktop, large monitor, photocentric printer, not to mention the camera peripherals, like flash, tripod, bag, lenses. The camera itself really is just the tip of the iceburg. Unless I really take the dive on most of the foregoing, I can't see going up camerawise. But the biggest thing for me is simply time, and right now I don't have that much to spend. ch

02-12-2008, 10:21 AM	#28
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	3 months to 900.

02-12-2008, 08:11 PM	#29
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027	I don't understand anyones reasoning to switch because of price not being less than $1000... If thats the case then switch now.

02-12-2008, 08:58 PM	#30
superfuzzy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NJ, USA (close to NYC) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 278	Originally posted by codiac2600 I don't understand anyones reasoning to switch because of price not being less than $1000... If thats the case then switch now. I'm not in the market for a camera at the moment, but I will be this summer. I wrote: if the k20d is not close to $1000 by late summer, I'll consider all of the alternatives* for my next DSLR.* In other words, if the k20d comes down a bit, based on what is known about the k20d, it will be a no brainer to grab one, but if the price stays in the same range, I'll look at alternatives before plunking down 12 or $1,300. I like my Pentax gear, but in the end a camera is just a tool, and I'll buy the best tool to meet my needs. If I did jump ship, it would be to Canon (Nikon - less likely). If normal market conditions prevail, I expect to get a k20d mid summer