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03-07-2013, 08:38 AM - 1 Like   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildimages Quote
He didn't say Innovations, he said "innovative products". Please don't twist words to make a point.
FFS it was a simple question.

03-07-2013, 08:49 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildimages Quote
There's a difference between Innovative and Innovations.....and I think you know that.
Oh really ... please do enlighten me ... what is the difference between "innovative" and "innovations"!?
03-07-2013, 08:52 AM   #258
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Not another Pentax Can Do No Wrong argument - geez!
03-07-2013, 09:13 AM   #259
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Where do you see those? Could you link to the specific posts?

03-07-2013, 09:42 AM   #260
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I do not want full frame because i have to change any lens.
I want pentax K-30 II s.
Asp-c toshiba senser 24 Megapixel with improve picture quality.
03-07-2013, 10:43 AM   #261
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Will you kindly provide some detail about the other brands' innovations that Pentax lacks?
I think we're all excited about the potential Full Frame Pentax camera, so I wont even go there.

Pentax has always dominated the competition with weather sealing, compact size and ergonomics. The K-5II and K5-IIs are now equipped with Phase Detection focusing which is a great improvement. Hopefully, that will carry across the entire line of cameras going forward. That being said here are a few things that I see in competing products that are really desirable.

Fujifilm has been doing really exciting things with the use of their X-Trans sensor. I like the fact that you can preview a shot, including the exposure, before taking it with the new Sony mirrorless cameras. I think Canon is doing some pheonimal things with integration between camera and computer / tablet / smartphone. They're ahead of everyone with their wifi features.

I've always loved my Pentax cameras and I think Pentax still has great potential. I just have this feeling that it's more of a game of catchup rather than innovation. Maybe a lot of that has to do with the buyouts. I just hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'd hate to see Pentax loose any more ground to the competition.

-Andy
03-07-2013, 10:48 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
FFS it was a simple question
Your language aside, I gave you a simple answer. You're an intelligent person Monochrome, and trying to bait a poster by twisting his words is, or should be, beneath you. Why beat the poster up for expressing an opinion? His reference to "innovative products" is more than obvious if one follows the releases of new equipment from other manufacturers. When the K5 II and K5 IIs were released, I think the owner of this forum stated something to the effect of "great, now we have three cameras with the same sensor." I could go find the post, but the point is, frustration is setting in amongst Pentax users, and that cannot be good for the company OR the end user. Me and you and the other Pentax shooters who are looking, waiting, and longing for Pentax to step up to the plate and do something exciting. Waiting for them to be "different" instead of being the same old same old. In political speak, it's high time they energized the base. Otherwise, they might end up like Mitt, sitting on the sidle lines watching the world go by.
03-07-2013, 11:14 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentee Quote
I think we're all excited about the potential Full Frame Pentax camera, so I wont even go there.

Pentax has always dominated the competition with weather sealing, compact size and ergonomics. The K-5II and K5-IIs are now equipped with Phase Detection focusing which is a great improvement.
PDAF has been the standard technology to Pentax's AF system since 1988 when SAFOX was introduced. Mirrorless K-01 and I presume Q used CDAF technology which is slow but accurate. If comments on this Forum are to be a guide Pentax has lagged the competiton developing their Phase Detect autofcus algo, but K5II/IIs improved low light. Many hope they'll improve tracking AF and FPS for action and birding.
QuoteOriginally posted by pentee Quote
Hopefully, that will carry across the entire line of cameras going forward. That being said here are a few things that I see in competing products that are really desirable.

Fujifilm has been doing really exciting things with the use of their X-Trans sensor. I like the fact that you can preview a shot, including the exposure, before taking it with the new Sony mirrorless cameras
If you mean the LCD can show the actual RAW image as it will export, that's pretty cool. My K-01 shows me in camera jpeg that is brightened, and I can further altwer the display to suit me. I use the histogram for an indication of what the RAW file will export - but I recently read that the histogram is also from a jpeg conversion, not the actual RAW. Have to look that up. Pentax suffers in that they haven't a sensor fab - they have to work with what they can get.
QuoteOriginally posted by pentee Quote
I think Canon is doing some pheonimal things with integration between camera and computer / tablet / smartphone. They're ahead of everyone with their wifi features.
Many here hope Pentax develops Remote Assistant, wifi and/or BlueTooth controls for the camera, etc. I'm not sure I care to u[pload directly to Instagram but wifi file transfer to a tablet would be useful.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentee Quote
I've always loved my Pentax cameras and I think Pentax still has great potential. I just have this feeling that it's more of a game of catchup rather than innovation.
I'm hoping ther ecent delays are because they're trying to leap-frog at least something to be a leader again.

QuoteOriginally posted by pentee Quote
Maybe a lot of that has to do with the buyouts. I just hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. I'd hate to see Pentax loose any more ground to the competition.

-Andy
Agreed - certainly. Corporate changes are brutal on the people and internal structure of a company. You make valid points and nothing you ask for is extreme. It would be interesting to better understand and clarify your ideas about autofocus. Pentax does some tings that distinguish us from the big boys. I believe the job is to extend those things and firmly establish the brand identity, then do those unique things better than anyone else.

For instance, we may never see the best action autofocus - OK, then tell the market Pentax is not an action camera, but also tell us what it is!!

And so on . . .

I think Ricoh has a plan to do just that, but many won't appreciate what Ricoh tells us they want Pentax to be,

- Paul


Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2013 at 12:23 PM.
03-07-2013, 11:17 AM   #264
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What's the point of having a forum, if you cant discuss the topics at hand? This thread isn't called Pentax wants to hear how great they are and how perfect all of their cameras are. I'm sure they'd like to know what their shooters are looking for, in order to help them develop better products.

-Andy
03-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #265
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Just to be perfectly clear, I don't really disagree with pentee (Andy). I was simply asking what actual innovative products (I use the word innovations and I asked "kindly") he would like to see Pentax do that the competition has already done. From my above post I believe he makes valid points.

I've never said Pentax is perfect. I've actually not even been a fanboy (contrary to what a few people think). All I've done is try to understand how some of the things that have disappointed us might have a cause rooted in external business conditions rather than plain bad product decisions, and to explain that. Sometimes I also suggest that Pentax America is not Pentax Ricoh Imaging.

And I happen to like the K-01 - which puts me in a statistically insignifcant portion of the sample. <g>

Last edited by monochrome; 03-07-2013 at 11:36 AM.
03-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #266
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Very clear and very gracious of you to spell it out. Thank You.
03-07-2013, 01:59 PM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by wildimages Quote
Very clear and very gracious of you to spell it out. Thank You.
Admittedly, my writing can be obtuse and is always verbose.

()
03-07-2013, 04:05 PM   #268
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No problems here

I had no problem with your question. Glad to get your feedback too. I was just scrolling back in time a saw a bunch of Pentax can do no wrong posts. Thought it was funny in a post about giving pentax feedback.



Andy
03-07-2013, 05:32 PM   #269
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Back to Heie's conversation with Jim Malcolm.

I'm a bit worried about the 'generic' goal of the Pentax Ricoh Imaging, which is, (to use Malcolm's own words) to define imaging industry with Nikon and Canon.

If my memory does not fail me, I think Fuji also wants the same: be the third one right after Nikon and Canon. And Sony too — or better to say, they want to be number one, but are just being polite to Nikon's and Canon's own heritage, and to hide their own pompousness.

So the advancement and future of imaging .. is defined by those who want to be the third player?

Last edited by Uluru; 03-07-2013 at 05:41 PM.
03-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #270
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So the advancement and future of imaging .. is defined by those who want to be the third player?
I actually think there's 100% nothing wrong with Mr. Malcolm stating that. In fact, it's the correct and realistically most viable answer. The reason for this is because he realizes that Pentax has no shot in hell dislodging Canon or Nikon from being the top two companies. Not in terms of creativity or uniqueness of offerings, however the distinction being very clear in the last word I used in the previous sentence - companies.Thus the implication being their sole existence as what is being measured, and by that rubric alone. Another way of saying that is "sheer market size," which again, is wholly unrealistic to assume the possibility that Pentax overtakes Canon and/or Nikon.

As I see it, it would be the same if the United States stated that it dreamed of being the only country in the world. While there are completely ignorant and ethnocentric members of the American community that do have that ludicrous and xenophobic dream (I despise them), which to continue the metaphor would be Pentax-is-infallible-fanboys, it is thus completely realistic as I understood Mr. Malcolm - Canon and Nikon (unless something revolutionary happens, as people are still getting over the demise of Kodak) will maintain their overwhelming market share "tie" between the two of them, and Pentax becomes the biggest camera company that doesn't follow the mainstream (i.e. Canon and Nikon). I think a 35-35-20 split between C-N-P of market share percentage is a brazen, but realistic long-term goal. Those aren't his numbers, I just made them up, but they would concur with his "Pentax, Canon, and Nikon are the three imaging companies of the future," letting the others (Fuji, Leica, Olympus, Sony, etc) wrestle for the remaining 10%. Some would even say that were unrealistic, but it is far more realistic than saying Pentax is to be the premier imaging company of the entire world.

It shows that Mr. Malcolm is in tune, honest, and realistic. Combine that with his initiative in contacting us boots on the ground for our "lowly perspective," and it conjures the thought of a quote that floated around many signatures 6-12 months ago a la Monochrome:

QuoteQuote:
Be of good cheer, Pentaxians. Ricoh has a plan and you will be happy.
There are always things that can be done better, and Canon and Nikon have their own list of grievances, even Leica users have things they'd like to see the company do better despite their zealot worship of Leica. 12 months ago, one of the most common gripes was the wish that they listened to us and talked to us. That there were ANY advertisements anywhere. That a camera were to be released that led the entire industry. Check, check, and with the K-30's launch price despite all of its pro-level features, check. Have we forgotten all of that already?

It seems that as technology becomes more and more pervasive in our everyday lives, our subconscious becomes more and more "instantaneous" with its acceptance of change and results (film --> digital; solid camera back --> LCD screen; recording settings in a notebook --> embedded exif, etc), and right in step our "long-term" memory. It reminds me of a quote from a movie whose name escapes me at the moment: "Jesus, nothing is ever fast enough for you kids."

-Heie

Last edited by Heie; 03-08-2013 at 04:00 AM. Reason: typo
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