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03-14-2013, 04:30 AM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Point taken. Although, as you can see from the other reply to your post, trying to define what kind of company they really are is open to debate.
Sure. I'd say that it's still integrated software+hardware, but now that software is no longer only the client software but also the content-providing software.

QuoteQuote:
The point is that historical camera companies (and by historical, I mean those that had a significant activity during film era) are no longer innovating in this field. And that is mainly because the biggest names, Canon and Nikon, are too concerned about rocking the boat by producing radical new camera designs. So the new designs pop out from outside this restricted circle: Apple, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, Lytro. Or from companies that are trying to grow again, like Fuji.
What Apple has done so far, is really just to apply their good grip on usability to the iPhone camera. And Nokia has shown that cell phones can actually be decent cameras too, but (at least so far) failed on usability with the outdated OS for that phone. But combine those two, and it's easy to see that cell phone cameras may still eat into the compact camera market with ever better products.

Btw I wouldn't include Olympus and Sony in that list. Sony includes the historical legacy of Minolta, once one of the really good camera makers (Minolta SRT-101 was high on the radar when I bought my first SLR!) and Olympus has a very long history of camera innovation. For instance: Olympus OM-1 introduced remarkably small camera bodies before Pentax ME and MX came, and Olympus OM-2 had TTL off-the-film auto exposure long before Pentax LX got it.

03-14-2013, 05:31 AM   #302
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
So which one do you root for here - Sigma or Pentax
I like some of the FA's, especially for their size; and even for the somewhat universal front filters on a variety of the Pentax lenses. But in the end Sigma still gets my vote.

For someone whom is terribly "into photography", both creatively and professionally - it's all about the optics. Plus Sigma wins rather massively when it comes to build quality and reliability
03-14-2013, 06:40 AM   #303
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That's only your opinion.
03-14-2013, 07:13 AM   #304
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And is he not entitled to it? Or must we only make post here that laud the Pentax brand? The title of the thread is Pentax Wants To Hear What You Think, isn't it? If we think outside the box, are we wrong? If we have different opinions are we wrong? Are we banished from posting for actually letting Pentax know what we think? Or should this thread be titled, Pentax Wants To Hear What You Think As Long As You Drink The Koolaid And Agree With Them? If everyone on this forum agreed with everything Pentax did, there wouldn't be a need for this thread at all. The mere fact that Pentax asked what we think, means they know there are differing opinions out there and they are seeking to find ways to make the product better. At least, that's the way I see it, but as you say.....That's only my (your) opinion.

03-14-2013, 07:23 AM   #305
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I'm not implied anything beyond what's written. That's just his opinion, and that means it's not a fact - nothing less, nothing more.

Of course, I could disagree with such statement. That would be my opinion, which I didn't stated because it's useless (I would also have to prove Pentax is not so much worse than LensBaby, by the way, and I can't be bothered to).

Last edited by Ash; 03-14-2013 at 01:58 PM.
03-14-2013, 08:28 AM   #306
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QuoteQuote:
I'm not implied anything beyond what's written.
I understood that from his post, I was just wondering why you took the time to point it out? I thought for a minute there, that perhaps, this was 1984 - and I had gone backwards (or forwards as the case may be) in time to some Orwellian Universe. Thank You for clearing it up for me. It's much appreciated.
03-14-2013, 08:59 AM   #307
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Easy: because I wanted to make clear that affirmations like "Sigma wins rather massively when it comes to build quality and reliability" are unsubstantiated, and far from being accepted as an universal truth by Pentaxians. Why are you posting?
I have nothing against constructive, substantiated criticism; even I have some (for example regarding my own K-5, which took several firmware upgrades to focus OK in tungsten light). But this doesn't mean I should accept any criticism, no matter if it's valid or not.
OTOH, you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of doing, attacking those who don't accept that. Look in the mirror, before accusing others.

Last edited by Ash; 03-14-2013 at 01:56 PM.
03-14-2013, 09:01 AM   #308
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I once bought a $1200 Sigma 120-400mmm based on my high opinion of Sigma. In the end it cost me 16 hours driving, hundreds of dollars in gas, and I ended up with a DA*60-250, that is actually a great lens. Probably better than anything Sigma makes in it's price range.


QuoteQuote:
it's all about the optics. Plus Sigma wins rather massively when it comes to build quality and reliability
That's a pretty dangerous opinion. It could cost people a pile of time and money. It cost me a lot of time and money. I don't entertain that opinion much anymore. At least not quietly. I buy Sigma when Pentax and Tamron don't make a similar product.

I am thinking a Sigma 70-200 2.8 would be an good investment, just because for me that would be an action lens and it' is said to be very fast focussing compared to others in that range. I've ordered the 8-16, apparently they did a great job on it, and the 300 and 500 primes are impressive. Apart from those four, I wouldn't recommend any of them.

When they don't compromise they produce great lenses. Their compromise lenses are as bad as anyone else's compromise lenses.

Apart from those four, my opinion would be, don't buy one unless you have to.

03-14-2013, 09:05 AM   #309
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Once again, Thank You for clearing it up for me.

Last edited by Ash; 03-14-2013 at 01:58 PM.
03-14-2013, 01:51 PM   #310
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Apple's greatest innovation isn't its iPhone for example, but the AppStore, iTunes, iOS, OS X, etc.
Well, those other aspects are very important, but not to photography (which is the subject here, rather than Apple's business). It is the availability of cameras in phones that is killing the compact camera market. And then there is the social aspect of being able to share photos online on Facebook, for example, which is now impacting the design of cameras by increasing demand for features like WiFi connectivity. The classic camera companies are now in reactive mode.

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Players like Sony, despite buying rights for the whole A-mount, seem not to understand what's the real stake there.
Well, they understand more than others. You can remote control your NEX from an iPhone. The fact that we see this kind of technology integration from Sony, rather than from Canon, Nikon, or Pentax is what I was pointing out.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Btw I wouldn't include Olympus and Sony in that list. Sony includes the historical legacy of Minolta, once one of the really good camera makers (Minolta SRT-101 was high on the radar when I bought my first SLR!) and Olympus has a very long history of camera innovation. For instance: Olympus OM-1 introduced remarkably small camera bodies before Pentax ME and MX came, and Olympus OM-2 had TTL off-the-film auto exposure long before Pentax LX got it.
Yes, Olympus is part of the classic camera companies and Sony had inherited Minolta. But Olympus strikes me as the only exception here. Sony was not really transformed by acquiring Minolta - they absorbed it and products like NEX are the result of Sony engineering more than of any kind of Minolta product legacy. So I am aware that Olympus makes an exception, but I can only write so much in one post.
03-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #311
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QuoteQuote:
Well, they understand more than others. You can remote control your NEX from an iPhone. The fact that we see this kind of technology integration from Sony, rather than from Canon, Nikon, or Pentax is what I was pointing out.
Guess you haven't seen a Canon 6D
03-14-2013, 02:20 PM   #312
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That's only your opinion.
And that ^ is your opinion.


And, for reference, the line above this one is my opinion on the opinion of your opinion. We all need to spell these statements out clearly for everyone because, you know, everyone else is a mindless droid with no ability for inference.
03-14-2013, 02:35 PM   #313
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No, that was a fact. This proves that indeed people like me (who can make the difference between facts and opinions) need to spell it out.
Of course, you are welcome to demonstrate that Sigma "wins rather massively when it comes to build quality and reliability". If you can. Or you can keep it going with those stupid strawmen, since it's allowed on this forum (unlike some rude acronyms).
03-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #314
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Sigh .... Can we please stop this?
03-14-2013, 02:54 PM   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Sigh .... Can we please stop this?
What? Are you having fun yet? Because we can't stop until everyone has had fun...
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