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12-24-2012, 10:22 AM   #226
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Thanks so much for the translation! The good news is that Pentax seems take legacy K-mount compatibility very seriously. It also sounds like Ricoh will release something interesting soon.

The part that worries me is he seems to think mirrorless cameras are just for "casual" photography. It depends what he means by "casual", but it sounds a bit dismissive. In fact, this sounds like the Canon/Nikon approach to me - cameras with limited controls, that drive the more serious customers to Olympus or Fuji. Let's hope that "casual" means "serious-minded photographer on his/her day off".

In my case, I'm most likely to buy an APS-C DSLR or some kind of advanced compact next, so it looks like my needs will be satsified.

12-24-2012, 11:01 AM   #227
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I'd be surprised if the most MILC sold wouldn't be some viewfinderless, point&shoot-like cheap MILCs. Maybe he's not dismissive at all, only knows his home market well.
Of course, there will always be exceptions.
12-25-2012, 06:00 AM   #228
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He's right. MILCs are less serious cameras. Who's going to choose a MILC over DSLR for sports, wildlife, weddings, or any pro use? The only reason I can see to choose a MILC for an indoor house party is to preserve a casual mood, because in low light a DSLR will work circles around it. Holding the camera at arms length will be seen by your subjects as less serious than raising a DSLR to your eye. People with MILCs tell us all the time that they're fun to use. When I get one, it will be to partner my DSLR, not replace it. I bet that's how most here feel .Let's not criticize Mr Kitazawa for being honest.
12-25-2012, 08:10 AM   #229
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As for me, it's more interesting new product from Ricoh - nor GXR line, neither GR line...

12-25-2012, 11:10 AM   #230
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
He's right. MILCs are less serious cameras. Who's going to choose a MILC over DSLR for sports, wildlife, weddings, or any pro use? The only reason I can see to choose a MILC for an indoor house party is to preserve a casual mood, because in low light a DSLR will work circles around it. Holding the camera at arms length will be seen by your subjects as less serious than raising a DSLR to your eye. People with MILCs tell us all the time that they're fun to use. When I get one, it will be to partner my DSLR, not replace it. I bet that's how most here feel .Let's not criticize Mr Kitazawa for being honest.
There's certainly merit I find in that viewpoint but we should always remember that "things change" and along with that what's considered "serious" can change, too. For instance, I have a hard time believing that NEX-7s and E-M5s are being bought for fun at house parties and doesn't that illustrate the problem of generalizations? IMHO, a D3100 or T3 is a far less serious camera than an E-M5. For me, I chose a K-30 over an EM-5 but it wasn't because one was serious and one wasn't.
12-25-2012, 11:47 AM   #231
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
There's certainly merit I find in that viewpoint but we should always remember that "things change" and along with that what's considered "serious" can change, too. For instance, I have a hard time believing that NEX-7s and E-M5s are being bought for fun at house parties and doesn't that illustrate the problem of generalizations? IMHO, a D3100 or T3 is a far less serious camera than an E-M5. For me, I chose a K-30 over an EM-5 but it wasn't because one was serious and one wasn't.
This is my opinion too. Technology will change. EVF and CDAF technology are moving fast and at some point they will equal or surpass DSLRs. Customers will change too. New generations of enthusiasts may not consider the size of a DSLR to be acceptable when cameras like the EM-5 offer equal performance.

My worry is that if Pentax aims its mirrorless cameras at the low end, then low end is what they'll get in terms of customers. I think there is a huge market between pro and casual, which is where mirrorless cameras are doing well.
12-25-2012, 12:52 PM   #232
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
New generations of enthusiasts may not consider the size of a DSLR to be acceptable when cameras like the EM-5 offer equal performance.
State of the art with a smaller sensor will never equal SOTA with a larger sensor, although can certainly be good enough. A MILC cannot replace a DSLR for me, because my main interest is wildlife; no AF-C, no tracking, no fast telephoto lenses, and the EVF's I've tried are drek, even on MILC's that cost as much as DSLR's. I don't doubt that some day MILC will catch up to DSLR's but that time is years away.
12-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #233
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That the best MILCs are better than the lowest end DSLRs, is true

Pentax would have two choices:
- to aim their mirrorless cameras at the low end, waiting the technology to evolve and growing with it
- to aim their mirrorless cameras at the high end, and suffer because the technology is not up there. They might have some advantage when the technology would catch up, but not necessarily.
Kitazawa-san said their decision has implication in the long term (10-15 years IIRC). They should not rush it, right now they can continue very well with the ever-growing DSLR market.

12-25-2012, 01:53 PM   #234
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
State of the art with a smaller sensor will never equal SOTA with a larger sensor, although can certainly be good enough. A MILC cannot replace a DSLR for me, because my main interest is wildlife; no AF-C, no tracking, no fast telephoto lenses, and the EVF's I've tried are drek, even on MILC's that cost as much as DSLR's. I don't doubt that some day MILC will catch up to DSLR's but that time is years away.
I took the previous poster's point to be that for any given sensor size, a MILC will be smaller than a DSLR (E-M5 vs E-5). Even users of the relatively big K-01 claim it's more portable than a DSLR but like you I wouldn't want one. Agree, we're years away from a MILC catching up to a D4 but maybe not to a K-30 or K-5 II.
12-25-2012, 02:55 PM   #235
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The E-5 is large for such a small sensor; it's about the size of a D600. By the way, I find the K-5 much easier to handle with a single hand than the smaller K-01 (which is pretty much grip-less). Same for those slippery, point&shoot-like MILCs.
Where do you think the DSLRs will be, when the MILCs would finally catch up the K-5 II?
12-25-2012, 03:08 PM   #236
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
That the best MILCs are better than the lowest end DSLRs, is true
Not for me. I could change to a low end Canon and 100-400mm tomorrow if I had to, but there is no MILC or MILC telephoto lens on the market that would suffice for all of my photographic interests.
12-25-2012, 03:56 PM   #237
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
The E-5 is large for such a small sensor; it's about the size of a D600. By the way, I find the K-5 much easier to handle with a single hand than the smaller K-01 (which is pretty much grip-less). Same for those slippery, point&shoot-like MILCs.
Where do you think the DSLRs will be, when the MILCs would finally catch up the K-5 II?
Where will they be? I imagine using the same sensors as DSLRs. Considering how sensor low-light capability has advanced so much in just the past three years or so, it's possible CDAF or hybrid focusing will become every bit as good as PDAF. Think about this... we'll never have to micro-adjust the AF system again.
12-25-2012, 04:05 PM   #238
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I think you misunderstood my question, I was asking about the DSLRs.
The MILCs will evolve, right; but so will the DSLRs.
12-25-2012, 04:20 PM   #239
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I think you misunderstood my question, I was asking about the DSLRs.
The MILCs will evolve, right; but so will the DSLRs.
I didn't misunderstand your question. How will will DSLRs evolve to stay ahead of MILCs?

Sensors? Same. Lenses? Basically the same though registration distance will be slightly different. Focusing? Obviously different but CDAF and on-sensor PDAF (and a combination) is just an emerging technology that has, presumably, plenty of heardroom remaining. PDAF is better today but it's been around for decades so how much is it going to evolve from here?
12-25-2012, 05:00 PM   #240
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How will the MILCs evolve to get ahead?

There's plenty to improve with DSLRs. They can be made more compact, due to shrinking electronics, lower power consumption and better design. The larger size will remain an advantage in some situations, e.g. with larger lenses.
Yes, focusing - the PD-AF is improving, how about combining the -3 EV capability of some systems such as Pentax' SAFOX X and Canon 6D's AF with 51+ AF points like on the D800e? How about better AF tracking systems? I'm surprised you say the MILC AF systems have "plenty of headroom remaining" as if the SLR dedicated AF systems would fall behind.

Even the viewfinder can evolve. A Pentax FF will offer a cheaper way of obtaining 100% view, due to the SR. We could also gain back some of the features and qualities of the old camera viewfinders; but also, maybe, integrate new features as well - for example a hybrid display which could superimpose all kind of information on the matte screen itself (lessening the advantages of EVFs while maintaining those of OVFs).

Being more up-market, the DSLRs can integrate more expensive technology; it won't be so easy for MILCs to not even reach, but also surpass them... unless the traditional camera makers will be fooled into giving up and stopping/slowing down development.
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