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12-28-2012, 10:47 AM - 1 Like   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
so uhm... sorry to break the chain but, any updates on the translation...?
Read this post: Full Article Translation

Some here seem to have noticed and read it, while for many the debate rages on.

12-28-2012, 10:49 AM - 3 Likes   #287
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You know, back when film SLR cameras were a thing -- everybody remembers those, right? -- every single manufacturer used the same "sensor" and had the same "crop ratio." And many other characteristics were pretty darn similar too (even if not directly compatible), e.g. register distance, mounts, lens availability, metering capabilities . . .

And yet somehow there was room in the marketplace for Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Oly, Minolta, and others.

Pentax doesn't need a format or sensor to itself. It doesn't need to define some kind of special category of cameras, like underwater mirrorless full-frame self-portrait cameras.

If Pentax can make a camera that's competitive and solid, that offers a good balance between price and performance, and has good controls, and MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO CAMERA BUYERS, then the customers will come. Not overnight necessarily, but eventually.

Hyundai and Kia started selling cars in in the US within the last few decades. They haven't offered any special unique vehicles that nobody else can. But they have been patient, and have made cars with decent pricing and (in recent years at least) good reliability, and now they are fairly well regarded and sell a lot of cars.

If Ricoh is really in this for the long-haul, I have every expectation they will be able to succeed. They just need to execute well on the fundamentals.
12-28-2012, 10:54 AM   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
You know, back when film SLR cameras were a thing -- everybody remembers those, right? -- every single manufacturer used the same "sensor" and had the same "crop ratio." And many other characteristics were pretty darn similar too (even if not directly compatible), e.g. register distance, mounts, lens availability, metering capabilities . . .

And yet somehow there was room in the marketplace for Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Oly, Minolta, and others.

Pentax doesn't need a format or sensor to itself. It doesn't need to define some kind of special category of cameras, like underwater mirrorless full-frame self-portrait cameras.

If Pentax can make a camera that's competitive and solid, that offers a good balance between price and performance, and has good controls, and MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO CAMERA BUYERS, then the customers will come. Not overnight necessarily, but eventually.

Hyundai and Kia started selling cars in in the US within the last few decades. They haven't offered any special unique vehicles that nobody else can. But they have been patient, and have made cars with decent pricing and (in recent years at least) good reliability, and now they are fairly well regarded and sell a lot of cars.

If Ricoh is really in this for the long-haul, I have every expectation they will be able to succeed. They just need to execute well on the fundamentals.
I tend to agree with your statement here, you present a very good point.

But I refuse to have a Kia or a Hyundai in my garage.
12-28-2012, 02:41 PM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
I tend to agree with your statement here, you present a very good point.

But I refuse to have a Kia or a Hyundai in my garage.
Same here +1. I rather waste money on European or Japanese cars, thus I'll never buy a Kia or a Hyundai . As future Pentax FF, I wish it overprice and less people holding it.


Last edited by NSX167; 12-29-2012 at 02:35 AM.
12-28-2012, 06:20 PM   #290
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Why the hate on Korean auto manufacturers? They're still beating out the North American auto manufacturers. And they now come with a free copy of Psy's album.(Just kidding)

Seriously though, they're on par with Japanese makers, and tend to offer better protection plans.
12-28-2012, 06:48 PM   #291
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Also - Wouldn't a simple method of "Changing the mount' while retaining K mount support just be to develop a deal with Sigma, as it's physically nearly identical to the K mount, and would allow for usage of K lenses via an adapter(Basically an Auto-Aperture, Auto-Focus extension tube).

This would ensure there would be third party lenses available from Sigma, even if Tamron continued to develop in K for Pentax, it would be a non-issue. It would also eliminate the need for a shorter registration distance for MILCs, and provides a wider bore for brighter lenses.(Slightly, but 2mm in the back is better than 20 in the front)
12-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eulogy Quote
Why the hate on Korean auto manufacturers? They're still beating out the North American auto manufacturers. And they now come with a free copy of Psy's album.(Just kidding)

Seriously though, they're on par with Japanese makers, and tend to offer better protection plans.
I never said I hate the Korean Kars. Just that I won't be likely to have one in my stable.

I'm partial to Fords, Chevy's, and Dodges of a certain "vintage", the legendary Datsun 240Z, and have owned a Toyota pickup (1975), and now have a 2005 Subaru Legacy wagon.

But I put more miles on my Freightliner Columbia in a year than many people drive in 5 to 10 years.


Last edited by Racer X 69; 12-28-2012 at 08:06 PM.
12-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
Read this post: Full Article Translation Some here seem to have noticed and read it, while for many the debate rages on.
Thanks for that post, had a hard time digging through this thread...

12-28-2012, 08:06 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Thanks for that post, had a hard time digging through this thread...
You are welcome. I had a tough time with it too!
12-29-2012, 02:04 AM   #295
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Is your Freightliner Columbia with US designed CAT/Cummins/Series 60 engine or Mercedes engine? Current frientliner trucks are more popular with Mercedes DD series engine designed in Europe.

Currently in "On-highway trucks" only US designed engine is Cummins, rest all the truck manufacturer uses European designs/ or modified European engines. Volvo trucks (Volvo engines), Freightliner Trucks (Mercedes engine), Paccar trucks (DAF engine), Navistar (MAN engine)

US is now more of a follower than leader in Automotive world.



QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
I never said I hate the Korean Kars. Just that I won't be likely to have one in my stable.

I'm partial to Fords, Chevy's, and Dodges of a certain "vintage", the legendary Datsun 240Z, and have owned a Toyota pickup (1975), and now have a 2005 Subaru Legacy wagon.

But I put more miles on my Freightliner Columbia in a year than many people drive in 5 to 10 years.
12-29-2012, 02:21 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by rajubhai55 Quote
Is your Freightliner Columbia with US designed CAT/Cummins/Series 60 engine or Mercedes engine? Current frientliner trucks are more popular with Mercedes DD series engine designed in Europe.

Currently in "On-highway trucks" only US designed engine is Cummins, rest all the truck manufacturer uses European designs/ or modified European engines. Volvo trucks (Volvo engines), Freightliner Trucks (Mercedes engine), Paccar trucks (DAF engine), Navistar (MAN engine)

US is now more of a follower than leader in Automotive world.
That's like Pentax/Nikon using a Sony sensor...

In the Automotive world, the same is happening over here (Europe) too, the Far East is leading now...
And in order to survive, GM and FORD are closing down West-European plants and sacking more than 20 000 workers, creating a social battlefield!
Soon ore later, this will end in over protected home markets, what then?
12-29-2012, 03:11 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by philippe Quote
That's like Pentax/Nikon using a Sony sensor...

In the Automotive world, the same is happening over here (Europe) too, the Far East is leading now...
And in order to survive, GM and FORD are closing down West-European plants and sacking more than 20 000 workers, creating a social battlefield!
Soon ore later, this will end in over protected home markets, what then?
If we get backed into protected markets, the US-Canada-Mexico NAFTA trade area will do just fine for cars and trucks. But we will be paying more for cameras! Although, as a Pentax owner, I can write my Congressman to allow Ricoh to set up a plant or two in the USA, like Toyota and Honda. Ricoh is a big company. Many years ago, when I worked in ad agencies, we had the Nashua photocopier account (a Ricoh company)... easy to make their ads, lots of unique selling features.
12-29-2012, 10:16 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by rajubhai55 Quote
Is your Freightliner Columbia with US designed CAT/Cummins/Series 60 engine or Mercedes engine? Current frientliner trucks are more popular with Mercedes DD series engine designed in Europe.

Currently in "On-highway trucks" only US designed engine is Cummins, rest all the truck manufacturer uses European designs/ or modified European engines. Volvo trucks (Volvo engines), Freightliner Trucks (Mercedes engine), Paccar trucks (DAF engine), Navistar (MAN engine)

US is now more of a follower than leader in Automotive world.
The 'Shaker has a Detroit Series 60 engine in it.

Caterpillar ceased building on road engines in 2007 because they cannot meet the latest federal emissions spec.

The Mercedes engine is not a good choice in a heavy truck, it is too small and does not provide enough horsepower/torque.

Most class 8 trucks are available with whatever engine the customer wants, i.e. a Cummins ISX can be had in a Freightliner, Volvo, International, Peterbilt or a Kenworth.

But each make has their own engine which they try to sell to their customers. As you point out, the PACCAR trucks (Peterbilt and Kenworth) can be had with the new MX engine, developed from the DAF engine in Europe, but now built in Mississippi (PACCAR actually bought DAF so they could have the engine to develop into the MX). Freightliner has the Detroit engine. International has the MaxxForce.

And Volvo has their lineup of boat anchors, the D12, D13 and D16. I had the unfortunate "privilege" to run a Volvo 780 with the D12 last year. By far the worst rig I have ever driven. Volvo trucks are really well laid out from a driver comfort point of view, large, roomy sleeper, the lower bunk on the 780 can be made out into a table and bench seats, refrigerator/freezer, etc.

But that D12 was a gutless pile of, well this is a family forum, so I'll let you fill in the blank. Even empty the thing had a tough time rolling down the road. Put 40,000lbs on the deck and going over even small hills required many downshifts, and Eisenhower in Colorado had the thing down to 20mph. I was happy to move on to the Junkliner with the Detroit.

But I still long for the first Volvo I drove. It had a Cummins ISX, 550hp engine in it. I never wanted for power pulling heavy loads in the Rocky Mountains.
12-31-2012, 11:28 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
You know, back when film SLR cameras were a thing -- everybody remembers those, right? -- every single manufacturer used the same "sensor" and had the same "crop ratio." And many other characteristics were pretty darn similar too (even if not directly compatible), e.g. register distance, mounts, lens availability, metering capabilities . . . And yet somehow there was room in the marketplace for Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Oly, Minolta, and others. Pentax doesn't need a format or sensor to itself. It doesn't need to define some kind of special category of cameras, like underwater mirrorless full-frame self-portrait cameras. If Pentax can make a camera that's competitive and solid, that offers a good balance between price and performance, and has good controls, and MAKE IT AVAILABLE TO CAMERA BUYERS, then the customers will come. Not overnight necessarily, but eventually. Hyundai and Kia started selling cars in in the US within the last few decades. They haven't offered any special unique vehicles that nobody else can. But they have been patient, and have made cars with decent pricing and (in recent years at least) good reliability, and now they are fairly well regarded and sell a lot of cars. If Ricoh is really in this for the long-haul, I have every expectation they will be able to succeed. They just need to execute well on the fundamentals.
I think you're right on point with this assessment. The insistence that Pentax must dominate a niche market is blown out of proportion, in my opinion. Presence in niche markets can be good, of course, but one of the most pressing markets where Pentax needs presence is in the full frame one. They don't have to have dominance in FF, or really any market, but they need to have enough presence and quality gear to have respectability and relevance in the market so that a steady stream of customers, albeit smaller than Nikon or Canon, will gladly go their direction.
01-02-2013, 02:25 AM   #300
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Back to basics

The way I read it it says "will", not "would":

QuoteQuote:
It will be difficult to drop the K-mount but we will have that discussion and make the decision carefully.
Anyway, that drops me. I will hardly buy another K-mount lens.
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