PENTAX plan in 2013 - who can translate?

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Exactly, if the K-mount is ditched, then users can just as wel switch to Canikon.

If Pentax is going to be exactly like Canon or Nikon... Then what's the use of buying a Pentax?

It's a good move if you want kill Pentax off though.

I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be?

Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C.

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

creampuff:
And I 100% disagree. No offense, but every point you made is not valid.
- lenses with improved SDM/DC, FF image circle, new optical construction and new lens coatings can very well be K-mount.
- you're ignoring the users with new lenses, ready to spend more into the K-mount, on both lenses and cameras. They are those who give money to Pentax.
.

What do you mean? Old users with new lenses? New lenses are for APC-S.
No any connection between DA lenses for APS-C and new FF lenses.

Blue · 12-21-2012, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be?

Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C.

Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959.

gazonk · 12-21-2012, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959.

Several of the DA lenses can be used with less crop than 1.5x, so a crop individually tailored for each lens would be cool.

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Blue

Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959.

Nikon uses - it's Nikon's move. No any sense in crop-mode. Why must Pentax be Nikon???

**Fontan** · 12-21-2012, 08:48 AM

Reading the very last part of the article, I got the impression that they are at least toying with the idea of ditching the K mount for the upcoming FF (if they come at all). This probably means that they have at least created a mock up or two with a new mount. Either way, they will ensure that old K mount lenses will be compatible with adapters of some sort. I also suspect that if they use a new mount, this will be compatible with, and can be optimized for mirrorless FF (for the corner sharpness he says) if they ever decided to go that rout. As Ogl suggested, I think the money is at the lenses and adapters, and this is so very true.

Quicksand · 12-21-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by vonBaloney

A modern electronic mount has a lot of advantages, and would probably increase third-party lens support as well, which has been dwindling. If they can come up with an adapter that allows full-feature (or crippled as we have become used to) from K-mount (and release it at the same time as new system), why not?

There's nothing stopping K-mount from becoming a "modern electronic mount." Remember, it started off as just a bayonet with a mechanical aperture coupler.

Then an analog contact was added. Then digital contacts. Then power zoom contacts. Then SDM.

Whatever modernization is really necessary can be added, short of (a) lenses faster than f/1.2, and (b) decreased register distance. On an FF camera I wouldn't really want either of those things.

Just add contacts, or dynamically redefine the ones that are already there based on the kind of lens attached, like is already done for analog vs. digital lenses.

Kunzite · 12-21-2012, 08:49 AM

ogl:
If you can't find the logic, it doesn't mean there is none; just that you couldn't find it. Maybe you didn't even search...

Clavius is right; if the current K-mount users would have to change the system anyway in order to go FF, why not jump to Canikon?
If the current K-mount users would see their system being phased out, why not jump to a more viable system, e.g. Canikon?
If one wants a dual APS-C + FF kit, and Pentax would have two separate mounts for that, why not go to a system which is more convenient, e.g. Canikon?

And so what if they have just several 35mm lenses? That's already much better than none, than starting from scratch. Do they need more lenses, yes, they do - but those can be K-mount.

Yes, "old" users with new lenses, i.e. the current K-mount user base, the people on which Pentax survives. Are they irrelevant to you?

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:50 AM

Pentax FF will have new mount. And it's FULL STOP...

ElJamoquio · 12-21-2012, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by ogl

I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be?

Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C.

The patents for the 60-250 and the 300 call them out as FF. The 300mm certainly is FF. I'd be shocked if the 560 isn't.

Pentax has about 10 FF lenses, so about 20-30% of their lenses are in reality FF.

gazonk · 12-21-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by Franky2step

Pentax is already losing the battle for full frame

No, there's still room there. The Canon 5d/6d cameras IMHO are quite boring and with a rather mediocre (for its size) sensor. The only really terrific FF camera right now is the D800, but it's not for everyone - for instance it's quite bulky.

If Pentax brings a WRed, sturdy and compact camera with some unique features to the market, I think it's plenty of room for it. After all, the FF market is still in its infancy and very small compared to the APS-C market.

Kunzite · 12-21-2012, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Pentax FF will have new mount. And it's FULL STOP...

Don't make up things, and present them as a fact.

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:54 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

The patents for the 60-250 and the 300 call them out as FF. The 300mm certainly is FF. I'd be shocked if the 560 isn't.

Pentax has about 10 FF lenses, so about 20-30% of their lenses are in reality FF.

Alas...60-250 is not FF at all. We don't know how DA* lenses (not officially FF) will work at high MP FF camera. Pentax already knows...
I think it won't be perfect.

Canon remake new line of FF lenses for high resolution FF cameras. Pay attention!!! Sony and Nikon do the same...
The next FF sensors will be 32, 36 and 46 MP. APS-C will be 24 MP.

Old K-mount lenses from film era are already so-so at 16 MP APS-C. Not all, but a lot of.

Blue · 12-21-2012, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Nikon uses - it's Nikon's move. No any sense in crop-mode. Why must Pentax be Nikon???

Its not about becoming Nikon. Its about staying Pentax. I used them as an example because #1) they started out in the slr business with the F mount and still use it; and 2) it has similar dimensions including registration distance to the K-mount. Changing mounts for the sake of changing mounts would be a silly move for Pentax given the K-mount is their bread and butter at present. Likewise, it would be dumb for Nikon to make a switch. Canon got away with it because they did it in the 80s.

ogl · 12-21-2012, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

Don't make up things, and present them as a fact.

I put smile...

It's just provocation

Excuse me.

But...I really hope for new mount.

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12-21-2012, 08:38 AM	#121
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Clavius Exactly, if the K-mount is ditched, then users can just as wel switch to Canikon. If Pentax is going to be exactly like Canon or Nikon... Then what's the use of buying a Pentax? It's a good move if you want kill Pentax off though. I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be? Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C.

12-21-2012, 08:41 AM	#122
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite creampuff: And I 100% disagree. No offense, but every point you made is not valid. - lenses with improved SDM/DC, FF image circle, new optical construction and new lens coatings can very well be K-mount. - you're ignoring the users with new lenses, ready to spend more into the K-mount, on both lenses and cameras. They are those who give money to Pentax. . What do you mean? Old users with new lenses? New lenses are for APC-S. No any connection between DA lenses for APS-C and new FF lenses.

12-21-2012, 08:44 AM	#123
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by ogl I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be? Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C. Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959.

12-21-2012, 08:47 AM	#124
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Blue Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959. Several of the DA lenses can be used with less crop than 1.5x, so a crop individually tailored for each lens would be cool.

12-21-2012, 08:48 AM	#125
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Blue Nikon uses a "crop mode" for this issue. Nikon has aps-c lenses and ff lenses with the F mount which has been around since 1959. Nikon uses - it's Nikon's move. No any sense in crop-mode. Why must Pentax be Nikon???

12-21-2012, 08:48 AM	#126
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Reading the very last part of the article, I got the impression that they are at least toying with the idea of ditching the K mount for the upcoming FF (if they come at all). This probably means that they have at least created a mock up or two with a new mount. Either way, they will ensure that old K mount lenses will be compatible with adapters of some sort. I also suspect that if they use a new mount, this will be compatible with, and can be optimized for mirrorless FF (for the corner sharpness he says) if they ever decided to go that rout. As Ogl suggested, I think the money is at the lenses and adapters, and this is so very true.

12-21-2012, 08:49 AM	#127
Quicksand Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Ohio (formerly SF Bay Area) Posts: 1,519	Originally posted by vonBaloney A modern electronic mount has a lot of advantages, and would probably increase third-party lens support as well, which has been dwindling. If they can come up with an adapter that allows full-feature (or crippled as we have become used to) from K-mount (and release it at the same time as new system), why not? There's nothing stopping K-mount from becoming a "modern electronic mount." Remember, it started off as just a bayonet with a mechanical aperture coupler. Then an analog contact was added. Then digital contacts. Then power zoom contacts. Then SDM. Whatever modernization is really necessary can be added, short of (a) lenses faster than f/1.2, and (b) decreased register distance. On an FF camera I wouldn't really want either of those things. Just add contacts, or dynamically redefine the ones that are already there based on the kind of lens attached, like is already done for analog vs. digital lenses.

12-21-2012, 08:49 AM	#128
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	ogl: If you can't find the logic, it doesn't mean there is none; just that you couldn't find it. Maybe you didn't even search... Clavius is right; if the current K-mount users would have to change the system anyway in order to go FF, why not jump to Canikon? If the current K-mount users would see their system being phased out, why not jump to a more viable system, e.g. Canikon? If one wants a dual APS-C + FF kit, and Pentax would have two separate mounts for that, why not go to a system which is more convenient, e.g. Canikon? And so what if they have just several 35mm lenses? That's already much better than none, than starting from scratch. Do they need more lenses, yes, they do - but those can be K-mount. Yes, "old" users with new lenses, i.e. the current K-mount user base, the people on which Pentax survives. Are they irrelevant to you?

12-21-2012, 08:50 AM	#129
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Pentax FF will have new mount. And it's FULL STOP...

12-21-2012, 08:51 AM	#130
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by ogl I don't see any logic in your words...How could it be? Pentax has just several 35 mm lenses. 95% of lenses are for APS-C. The patents for the 60-250 and the 300 call them out as FF. The 300mm certainly is FF. I'd be shocked if the 560 isn't. Pentax has about 10 FF lenses, so about 20-30% of their lenses are in reality FF.

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12-21-2012, 08:52 AM	#131
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Franky2step Pentax is already losing the battle for full frame No, there's still room there. The Canon 5d/6d cameras IMHO are quite boring and with a rather mediocre (for its size) sensor. The only really terrific FF camera right now is the D800, but it's not for everyone - for instance it's quite bulky. If Pentax brings a WRed, sturdy and compact camera with some unique features to the market, I think it's plenty of room for it. After all, the FF market is still in its infancy and very small compared to the APS-C market.

12-21-2012, 08:53 AM	#132
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by ogl Pentax FF will have new mount. And it's FULL STOP... Don't make up things, and present them as a fact.

12-21-2012, 08:54 AM	#133
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by ElJamoquio The patents for the 60-250 and the 300 call them out as FF. The 300mm certainly is FF. I'd be shocked if the 560 isn't. Pentax has about 10 FF lenses, so about 20-30% of their lenses are in reality FF. Alas...60-250 is not FF at all. We don't know how DA* lenses (not officially FF) will work at high MP FF camera. Pentax already knows... I think it won't be perfect. Canon remake new line of FF lenses for high resolution FF cameras. Pay attention!!! Sony and Nikon do the same... The next FF sensors will be 32, 36 and 46 MP. APS-C will be 24 MP. Old K-mount lenses from film era are already so-so at 16 MP APS-C. Not all, but a lot of.

12-21-2012, 08:55 AM	#134
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by ogl Nikon uses - it's Nikon's move. No any sense in crop-mode. Why must Pentax be Nikon??? Its not about becoming Nikon. Its about staying Pentax. I used them as an example because #1) they started out in the slr business with the F mount and still use it; and 2) it has similar dimensions including registration distance to the K-mount. Changing mounts for the sake of changing mounts would be a silly move for Pentax given the K-mount is their bread and butter at present. Likewise, it would be dumb for Nikon to make a switch. Canon got away with it because they did it in the 80s.

12-21-2012, 08:57 AM	#135
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Kunzite Don't make up things, and present them as a fact. I put smile... It's just provocation Excuse me. But...I really hope for new mount.