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01-05-2013, 06:51 AM   #61
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Yes, I was talking about the (now) common "zoom", when you can change the focal length over a certain range. I would like to see a rangefinder to accommodate that.
Otherwise, I wouldn't say no to a tri-focal SLR lens, if there would be an advantage in making it this way.
Those P&S would also focus to only several distances, if I'm not mistaken.

01-07-2013, 03:07 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Would be pretty funny if the Pentax FF bore the Ricoh logo
I would not mind ... as long as the FF features a PKAF2 mount .
01-07-2013, 04:33 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Action photography.

RF > SLR > EVF

Here's a low light example with the K-x:
Been there, done that - with an EVF:





QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You didn't realize yet that a MILC doesn't have real time image processing? Not in a computing sense; there is a visible delay. And by the way, WYSIWYG is a lie.
Whatever. Let me know when you manage to use a DSLR to get results that cannot be done with a MILC. I won't hold my breath, so you can take your time.
01-08-2013, 12:27 AM - 1 Like   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Been there, done that - with an EVF:
No rapid, unpredictable action being followed there.
The dancers are all lined up for you.

01-08-2013, 10:21 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Would be pretty funny if the Pentax FF bore the Ricoh logo
What a weird marketing decision that would be: Bring out a major technological upgrade under a brand that is largely ignored by all but a few aficionados.

Rob
01-08-2013, 10:59 AM   #66
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As I said:
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I have a feeling that will actually happen... on April 1st
01-08-2013, 11:45 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Whatever. Let me know when you manage to use a DSLR to get results that cannot be done with a MILC. I won't hold my breath, so you can take your time.
Well why don't you let us know when your MILC can get results that I can not with a DSLR ? Why would I want to make a lateral move to a camera that can not do more than what I already have. I do not want a smaller camera,I do not like EVF's,I have no problem with the mirror so what advantage would there be for me?
01-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
No rapid, unpredictable action being followed there.
The dancers are all lined up for you.
Judo players are not running around either. And catching dancers or fighters at the right moment requires the same abilities from the photographer and their equipment. Get them wrong and they'll be blurry or look weird with arms over each other's faces in an uninteresting moment. Same with kid photography indoors. If you can get that right, you can handle any action.

I generally shoot the E-M5 in single shot mode, timing my shutter press for the right moment. But I also know that if I need to, I can go full speed at 9fps - such features almost remove the need for skill.

QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
Well why don't you let us know when your MILC can get results that I can not with a DSLR ? Why would I want to make a lateral move to a camera that can not do more than what I already have. I do not want a smaller camera,I do not like EVF's,I have no problem with the mirror so what advantage would there be for me?
What you or I want does not drive the industry trends. The question I asked was if there is a technical reason to keep DSLR tech around. All the reasons I see are about what some users like and want. Likes and wants are not technical reasons.

I also never said that you can get results with MILCs that you cannot get with DSLRs - I only said that you can get results more easily with MILCs than you could with DSLRs. And because MILCs are simpler and get rid of the bulk of the DSLR mirror mechanism, they will replace DSLRs in time. We can argue about the timeline, but it will happen. Unless, there is something you can only do with DSLRs - hence the question.

01-08-2013, 01:29 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
What you or I want does not drive the industry trends. The question I asked was if there is a technical reason to keep DSLR tech around. All the reasons I see are about what some users like and want. Likes and wants are not technical reasons.

What is the technical reason for going to MILC if it does not get better results what is the draw just the fact you have the latest greatest technology?
01-08-2013, 01:54 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Judo players are not running around either.
Heavyweights, maybe not.
The sample showed young lightweights, and they move!
01-08-2013, 01:56 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
What is the technical reason for going to MILC if it does not get better results what is the draw just the fact you have the latest greatest technology?
You may not want smaller, lighter, or an EVF, and you might not care about having a mirror, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for other people to prefer different approaches.

If on-sensor PDAF can be improved to work as well as the current mirror-and-separate-AF-sensor system -- and the Nikon 1 system suggests that's not far off -- then I'd be quite happy with a mirrorless/EVF camera.

Electronic viewfinders do offer some capabilities not easily implemented using an OVF, like exposure preview, color overlays, zooming, focus peaking, etc. Yes, there are disadvantages too, I recognize that. Latency, resolution, and DR currently being the chief problems in my view.

But the mirror/prism assembly adds considerable complexity, weight, expense, and the potential for mechanical failure or misalignment.

All else being equal, a DSLR and a MILC with the same sensor can certainly get comparable results. One isn't objectively superior to the other.

But all else isn't equal.
01-08-2013, 02:07 PM   #72
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What is unreasonable is declaring other people preferences as being "pointless", and by asking that a company known for their SLR products must change course and imitate e.g. Sony, instead of simply buying Sony products.
There is no K-5 II level MILC, yet there are some MILCs with more or less the same sensor...
01-08-2013, 03:13 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
You may not want smaller, lighter, or an EVF, and you might not care about having a mirror, but I think it's perfectly reasonable for other people to prefer different approaches.

If on-sensor PDAF can be improved to work as well as the current mirror-and-separate-AF-sensor system -- and the Nikon 1 system suggests that's not far off -- then I'd be quite happy with a mirrorless/EVF camera.

Electronic viewfinders do offer some capabilities not easily implemented using an OVF, like exposure preview, color overlays, zooming, focus peaking, etc. Yes, there are disadvantages too, I recognize that. Latency, resolution, and DR currently being the chief problems in my view.

But the mirror/prism assembly adds considerable complexity, weight, expense, and the potential for mechanical failure or misalignment.

All else being equal, a DSLR and a MILC with the same sensor can certainly get comparable results. One isn't objectively superior to the other.

But all else isn't equal.
I do not ask them to make a camera just for me but many in the MILC camp believe that MILC is the only way to go I just do not see it maybe in 5 or 10 years DSLR's will disappear but at the moment I see no clear advantage of the MILC other than it is the newest thing have not seen anything that proves that they are better just newer technology when they reach the point that they are getting better results than a DSLR then more people will be for them.
01-08-2013, 03:16 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by hangman43 Quote
What is the technical reason for going to MILC if it does not get better results what is the draw just the fact you have the latest greatest technology?
The technical reason for users is that it helps them get more keepers. There are features you can provide with a MILC that you cannot provide with a DSLR. Like an actual preview of the image you're going to capture with a clear view of DOF and exposure. This means that you can reduce the cycle of "take a shot, review, adjust, take another shot" to just "view, adjust, and take a shot". This might not sound impressive on paper, but it is in practice. And you cannot see this from samples, because samples always show the best results, not the pile of lesser results from which they were selected. But anecdotical evidence is available if you lack the first hand experience.

And then there is a technical reason for manufacturers, which is that they can cut out of the picture a complex mechanism.
01-08-2013, 03:49 PM   #75
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We're heading a little off track here. If people want to talk about what cameras they would next be after, vote and discuss here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/general-photography-industry/209882-next-...oh-pentax.html

What one person desires is a MILC, and what another wants is a dSLR. Both can do remarkably well, but each user has their preference. Neither format will be disappearing any time soon. So we can ease up on the 'my camera can do this and yours can't' bantering.

Whatever Ricoh are up to, we're all watching closely.
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