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01-27-2013, 09:05 PM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No it doesn't. It took Nikon less than a year to come up with the D3. Nikon was desperate then and knew it was their best shot. They were building it up on top of Nikon technologies available for decades and had only squeezed in an FF sensor. If Pentax wanted to release an FF camera by now in that similar fashion, they could!
Between the two behemoths Nikon and Canon, you have the vast bulk of the DSLR market covered. Everyone else is fighting for scraps. Do you really think PRIC, with its single-digit market share really has the engineers and resources to get a FF camera out as quickly as Nikon? Pentax, even with "their back up against the wall" could only dream of marshaling the resources that Nikon can without batting an eyelash.

PRIC only (finally) decided to commit to full frame within the past six months. This is documented. The 645d experiment was under Hoya, a different company. And you know what? In many ways, it was a good idea. Until PRIC grows substantially, it will never be able to beat CaNikon on their home turf (pro-level DSLR), which was firmly ceded to the big boys well before the Hoya takeover in 2007. Right now, they have positioned themselves with Mamiya and Hasselblad in the digital MF arena quite successfully, and have made some inroads in the enthusiast DSLR market.

The FF market is much smaller than the APS-C market. PRIC knows this. The last thing they need to do is release a half-baked, rushed FF into the market to get slaughtered by the Canon and Nikon. They know that if they are going to devote the R+D costs to a new, specialized line, that it better be a success. The Q and K-01 are great cameras in certain respects, but let's face it - they were market busts. Ricoh, unlike Hoya, bought Pentax because they want to be a player in Photographic imaging. Anything they release going forward is likely to be lot more developed and polished than the Hoya products. And at least in the shor tterm, it is going to take more time.

01-27-2013, 09:15 PM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
Until PRIC grows substantially, it will never be able to beat CaNikon on their home turf (pro-level DSLR)
Huh? APS-C is Canon's bread-and-butter and I'd take a K-5 over a 7D any day of the week.

I'm OK with Pentax taking their time, but the FF is going to be divided. There's too much of an advantage with FF, and the disadvantage (cost) is rapidly going down.
01-27-2013, 09:25 PM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? APS-C is Canon's bread-and-butter and I'd take a K-5 over a 7D any day of the week.
Yes, but they build their reputation on all the pro shooters using the 1d for National Geographic shoots (not to mention the 5d shooters doing weddings and the like) enough that they can not only make a profit selling FF gear, but they can also represent themselves as a "serious" camera maker in a way that lets them sell way more 7Ds than Pentax sells K5s, regardless of whether the K-5 is a superior camera.

Pentax faces a dilemma. It does not have the kind of pro cred on which it can build the reputation to sell lots of enthusiast cameras. And it does not have the user base of enthusiasts to support a less-profitable full frame platform. This doesn't mean that Pentax can't eventually compete against Canikon. But it's going to be a drawn-out process of brand (and lens and camera) building before Pentax is a viable FF brand.
01-27-2013, 10:07 PM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But it would seem ridiculous that Ricoh wanted to buy Pentax without any photo strategy in the first place, right? Before the purchase, during the purchase, etc. that strategy was forming already. It's not like: "Oh we got the damned thing — now lets figure out what we're gonna do with it ...".

But specifically, it is us who know nothing about that strategy. To be frank, we are only giving Pentax Ricoh endless excuses — excuses we devise ourselves — to cover up our own insecurity and interest in this matter. This summer will mark 2 years since Pentax Ricoh merger / acquisition, and still we haven't seen anything that shows their collective brain at work.
The problem is that Ricoh's camera products are frozen now. No any new products more than 1 year. It's strange strategy....
I'm waiting for new modules for GXR - but nothing...


Last edited by ogl; 01-28-2013 at 01:31 AM.
01-27-2013, 10:15 PM   #140
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01-27-2013, 11:32 PM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
But it's going to be a drawn-out process of brand (and lens and camera) building before Pentax is a viable FF brand.
Alternatively, they could release a jaw-dropping product that gets attention for all of the right reasons, like the Sony full-frame fixed lens camera, or the entire Fuji X system.

I find it interesting that they don't commission top photographers to create projects to show off their camera systems. For example, when Canon wanted to launch the 5d MkII video function, they brought in a Pulitzer-winning photographer (V. LaForet, who has since built a career in video) to shoot with it.
01-28-2013, 01:12 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
You mean 2011, right?
Yep, sorry - using the wrong calendar, I guess

dcshooter, the 645D "experiment" was started by the old Pentax Corporation; with such a competitive advantage on the DMF market, and with money already spent on R&D I'd guess it was easy to convince Hoya they should finish&launch it.
In comparison, trying to build a pro small format system now would be suicide, IMHO. Of course, there is the non-pro small format option...

fuent104, I don't believe into a one "jaw dropping" product. But how about the market? The Sony RX-1 is definitely an interesting product, how well does it sells? And the Fuji X? Aren't they still under the radar, despite putting some effort at making "jaw dropping" products?
01-28-2013, 01:59 AM   #143
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The fundamental point is that none of us really know anything about what Pentax-Ricoh is actually doing.

However it seems increasingly that Pentax has a small market share because they have made some very bad decisions in the past - or at least decisions that in hindsight were bad. Although at least we are no longer living in the dark days of the *ist series when lens availability was so poor.

01-28-2013, 03:15 AM   #144
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Are you sure nobody here have the slightest idea?
01-28-2013, 04:14 AM   #145
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If the ones in the know are so buttoned up, it's really like nobody here have the slightest idea, in the end.
01-28-2013, 04:32 AM   #146
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It is always like this. The people who know don't talk, the people who do talk don't know and things spin wildly out of control with a combination of gloom and doom and inflated speculation for the future.

My expectations have been for a 24 megapixel APS-C camera, for some time this spring and probably a full frame camera in December of this year.
01-28-2013, 04:42 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is always like this. The people who know don't talk, the people who do talk don't know and things spin wildly out of control with a combination of gloom and doom and inflated speculation for the future.

My expectations have been for a 24 megapixel APS-C camera, for some time this spring and probably a full frame camera in December of this year.
That sounds pretty realistic. I think we may hear something more about the in-camera moire removal system Pentax have mentioned, because it is one of the few ways they can make waves and distance themselves from the thundering herd.

I'd add a new Ricoh cam of some kind. Putting Pentax in charge of Ricoh cameras is not unlike putting the fox in charge of the henhouse in some respects. Pentax might see in Ricoh cams a handy way of getting ride of the clamour for mirrorless cams using the K mount. Instead, Ricoh becomes the Pentax mirrorless brand so to speak. But who knows. I haven't a clue, though there have been fewer hints and talk on the web than usual so I'm not expecting unicorns.
01-28-2013, 05:01 AM   #148
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While those who know won't talk, we have some information pointing out to the direction Pentax is going. I'd guess we can extrapolate that with quite a high degree of accuracy, from what they did in the past
Indeed, Pentax Ricoh seems even more secretive than Hoya-Pentax. Too bad about the unicorns, though.
01-28-2013, 05:52 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Huh? APS-C is Canon's bread-and-butter and I'd take a K-5 over a 7D any day of the week.

I'm OK with Pentax taking their time, but the FF is going to be divided. There's too much of an advantage with FF, and the disadvantage (cost) is rapidly going down.
I'd rather have a K-5 than a 7D, too. However, professional photographers, of which I'm not, want a superior photography "system" and Canon is better than Pentax in providing that. We don't need to look farther than the flash systems to understand why.
01-28-2013, 06:18 AM   #150
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Looks like they will be introducing three new rugged compacts, at least.

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