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01-08-2013, 03:29 PM   #91
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Yup. I'd much rather have a well-thought-out camera in July than a piss-poor one in January.

01-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Patience; it doesn't matter if it's CP+ or few months later
In the meantime, we can shoot with some pretty cool cameras already in the K-5, K30, K-01 and Q10...
Even Pentax's more dated gear is good to shoot with:


This thread just needed a photo to spice things up...
01-08-2013, 05:24 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Yup. I'd much rather have a well-thought-out camera in July than a piss-poor one in January.
What does that make the K-5 II's I wonder...
01-08-2013, 05:44 PM   #94
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Hmmm....

I'd rather have an ambitious and well-executed camera in July, than a unambitious or poor camera in January?

01-08-2013, 05:53 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
What does that make the K-5 II's I wonder
That isn't a reflection on the K-5 II.
I think you can understand the point at hand:

01-09-2013, 01:25 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
That isn't a reflection on the K-5 II.
Well, if it is a valid reflection at all, then it should extend to anything that Ricoh put out up to now. If not, then we know were we stand, don't we?
01-09-2013, 01:40 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I agree with Quicksand; no way the development of new products could start before Pentax Ricoh was founded, not even immediately after that.
Patience; it doesn't matter if it's CP+ or few months later.
I'm not sure that this is entirely true. There may be no way that a Pentax-Ricoh camera could have started development before Ricoh bought Pentax - that's almost self-evident.

However people seem to be disregarding Ricoh itself as a source of R&D. It seems likely that if Ricoh has been keen to raise its own profile in high end photography it wouldn't have started this road with the purchase of Pentax. It would have been investigating products and developments under its own brand before this - perhaps the GXR system is an indicator. Ricoh could easily have been researching new DSLR/ILC technology and developing cameras to the prototype stage before it purchased Pentax. In fact I would expect to have been doing this.

How easy it is to integrate Pentax specific technology into these ideas I don't know but I imagine it's not that time consuming especially when you consider that Pentax itself doesn't make most of the components in its own cameras anyway. To be frank no one on this board really knows.

It may well be too early to see a Ricoh directed DSLR model but equally it might not be.
01-09-2013, 04:25 AM   #98
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What are you unsure about?

I'm not disregarding Ricoh (as in: ex-Ricoh camera division) itself, however what you say it's extremely unlikely. Pentax have DSLR technology, experience and resources, Ricoh didn't; Ricoh was in no position to make a DSLR product faster than Pentax (who had several projects in their labs). Even if it were possible, the result would be a different platform from what Pentax is using, thus higher cost and difficult to integrate.

The issue is that you're thinking the other way around; it is Pentax who is absorbing anything Ricoh can offer. Now with Pentax Ricoh, it makes sense to integrate the two brand's technologies, e.g. image processors, firmware/software; but that will take time.

Ricoh directed DSLR model can only mean a Pentax designed product, with general requirements from Ricoh (as in: Ricoh company, not the ex-camera division though their resources could be used) management/marketing.

01-09-2013, 05:04 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
It was October 2011, actually, when the deal closed, and antitrust law looks rather dimly upon any kind of coordination or information sharing prior to the close date (known as "gun-jumping").

So officially, they wouldn't have even started talking about product planning until after the October closing, and I'm sure there must have been a familiarization and integration period before substantive work started. So we're still barely more than a year at this point for real product development.
I think the firewalls put in place before a deal is closed relate more to financials than to development programs. A notable exception would be when two companies are combining in a potentially monopolistic situation. Certainly that wouldn't apply to Ricoh and Pentax. Granted, this is US law and not Japan law but these types of laws are fairly consistent around the world.
01-09-2013, 05:39 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
What are you unsure about?

I'm not disregarding Ricoh (as in: ex-Ricoh camera division) itself, however what you say it's extremely unlikely. Pentax have DSLR technology, experience and resources, Ricoh didn't; Ricoh was in no position to make a DSLR product faster than Pentax (who had several projects in their labs). Even if it were possible, the result would be a different platform from what Pentax is using, thus higher cost and difficult to integrate.

The issue is that you're thinking the other way around; it is Pentax who is absorbing anything Ricoh can offer. Now with Pentax Ricoh, it makes sense to integrate the two brand's technologies, e.g. image processors, firmware/software; but that will take time.

Ricoh directed DSLR model can only mean a Pentax designed product, with general requirements from Ricoh (as in: Ricoh company, not the ex-camera division though their resources could be used) management/marketing.
I am not saying that Ricoh would be able to produce a DSLR faster than Pentax I was just pointing out that "no way the development of new products could start before Pentax Ricoh was founded" was probably not totally accurate if you include all the development steps required to produce a DSLR. I would think that Ricoh would have started at least drawing up plans for its DSLR ideas - which is part of the development process. That's all I was saying.
01-09-2013, 05:55 AM   #101
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Ricoh's DSLR ideas? Since when?
And I'll say again, this is extremely unlikely since it is Pentax who had everything to make DSLRs. There is such thing as a natural order, and any plan would be based on Pentax' projects, technology, knowledge, patents; not Ricoh's.
It's a mistake to believe Ricoh's management/marketing would be able to formulate a sound DSLR plan, even more, down to product drafts, before being able to analyze data that only Pentax had, and talk with those involved in this business for decades. IMO.
01-09-2013, 06:04 AM - 1 Like   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Ricoh's DSLR ideas? Since when?
And I'll say again, this is extremely unlikely since it is Pentax who had everything to make DSLRs. There is such thing as a natural order, and any plan would be based on Pentax' projects, technology, knowledge, patents; not Ricoh's.
It's a mistake to believe Ricoh's management/marketing would be able to formulate a sound DSLR plan, even more, down to product drafts, before being able to analyze data that only Pentax had, and talk with those involved in this business for decades. IMO.
It would be very odd if Ricoh didn't have a very good idea of the kinds of products it wanted to produce post Pentax acquisition. They bought Pentax to enable them to better market and produce high end products and DSLRs (under the better known Pentax brand - which I think was a major consideration in the purchase). To buy a company before you developed pretty robust plans for what you want to do would seem to be very short sighted to me - especially in the current global market.
01-09-2013, 06:05 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
In the meantime, we can shoot with some pretty cool cameras already in the K-5, K30, K-01 and Q10...
Even Pentax's more dated gear is good to shoot with:


This thread just needed a photo to spice things up...
Hey! That's my gear! No. Sorry. My 77 and 44 are in silver. Uncanny resemblance, though.
01-09-2013, 09:27 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Caat Quote
It would be very odd if Ricoh didn't have a very good idea of the kinds of products it wanted to produce post Pentax acquisition. They bought Pentax to enable them to better market and produce high end products and DSLRs (under the better known Pentax brand - which I think was a major consideration in the purchase). To buy a company before you developed pretty robust plans for what you want to do would seem to be very short sighted to me - especially in the current global market.
Having a good idea is one thing; being able to sketch a viable product and start the development (for products they never did before) is another.

They bought Pentax because by themselves they couldn't do it (even with substantial founding), because they were stuck in a niche with no other way out. They bought Pentax because they thought they could build on what Pentax had (instead of starting from scratch with different products).
They didn't do it because they had some detailed plans, and only needed someone to execute them.
01-10-2013, 01:00 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
That one too. Though "LX" is 60 in roman numerals.. and it's only been 55 years after the first camera under the name Pentax (1957)
So the next camera should be named "LV" then
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