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01-27-2013, 11:08 AM   #121
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To be fair, that time frame does also cover the Ricoh acquisition, the consolidation of the two departments, and the establishment of the new photo strategy. Designing and building a new FF from the ground up takes time, especially for a smaller camera maker. What we've seen so far (Q, k-30, K5II, etc.) have been incremental developments on existing Hoya Technologies. By the end of this year is when we should really start seeing Ricoh's stamp on the company, particularly at the higher end.

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I made a mistake here and meant to say 2010. Don't tell me there was only a modest update of the K-5 after all that time?

And historically the CP+ is very important for Pentax because it's their home market. They cannot afford to announce "just" a Ricoh there.


01-27-2013, 11:18 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote

K-02....maybe....although I doubt
Why not a successor to K-x/K-r with the new 24mp to compete with D3200/D5200? Given the K-5IIs, I don't know wether it would make much sense for them to release an APS-C 24mp K-3 by the end of this year IF the rumors about a planned FF camera are true.
01-27-2013, 11:34 AM   #123
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My pure speculation forecast for CP+

K-Mount GXR module
AF560 v2 WR prototype
Pentax Q successor and some new lenses for that
News on a 645D update
A DA* zoom lens
A DA ltd zoom lens
A DAL prime lens
01-27-2013, 11:39 AM   #124
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I guess you've missed the Pentax Q successor, the Q10, which was announced a few months ago?

01-27-2013, 12:43 PM   #125
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And I guess you missed "have been incremental developments on existing Hoya Technologies" and "etc.,".

QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I guess you've missed the Pentax Q successor, the Q10, which was announced a few months ago?

Last edited by Ash; 01-27-2013 at 01:20 PM.
01-27-2013, 02:25 PM - 1 Like   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by dcshooter Quote
To be fair, that time frame does also cover the Ricoh acquisition, the consolidation of the two departments, and the establishment of the new photo strategy.
But it would seem ridiculous that Ricoh wanted to buy Pentax without any photo strategy in the first place, right? Before the purchase, during the purchase, etc. that strategy was forming already. It's not like: "Oh we got the damned thing — now lets figure out what we're gonna do with it ...".

But specifically, it is us who know nothing about that strategy. To be frank, we are only giving Pentax Ricoh endless excuses — excuses we devise ourselves — to cover up our own insecurity and interest in this matter. This summer will mark 2 years since Pentax Ricoh merger / acquisition, and still we haven't seen anything that shows their collective brain at work.

It is us who want to be insanely surprised and therefore believe that buying us extra time will deliver some insanely great products, which will "magically help Pentax make a quantum leap over all its competitors". And make us immensely proud for being so faithful.


QuoteQuote:
Designing and building a new FF from the ground up takes time, especially for a smaller camera maker
No it doesn't. It took Nikon less than a year to come up with the D3. Nikon was desperate then and knew it was their best shot. They were building it up on top of Nikon technologies available for decades and had only squeezed in an FF sensor. If Pentax wanted to release an FF camera by now in that similar fashion, they could!

But instead, in that same year when Nikon decided to go after the FF using their best selling mount and all its faithful userbase, some peanut brain at Hoya / Pentax decided to go after the 645D, using the obscure Pentax mount compared to its hugely popular K-mount. Result? Instead of inspiring its large userbase, they've split them even further.

Nikon was fully aware what users were craving for — the FF commitment. FF is the legacy since film age, millions of lenses were already there. But what Hoya/Pentax does? They release 645D, to satisfy cravings of the 0.1% of its userbase. It was the stupidest move in camera history, that only helped Pentax bleed its customers to Nikon and Canon.

QuoteQuote:
By the end of this year is when we should really start seeing Ricoh's stamp on the company, particularly at the higher end.
As said above, this speculation isn't based on any facts, but on our belief that "it takes time to cook up some good magic and reward our faith". But would a good company act in such a way, and forget that it's maybe better to retain its customers and upgrading its market image by releasing incrementally better products based on current technologies?

Same as Nikon did, same what Canon does all the time, and which awards them with constant customer loyalty and stabile market presence. But that's why Nikon is Nikon, right?

Last edited by Uluru; 01-27-2013 at 02:56 PM.
01-27-2013, 03:42 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But it would seem ridiculous that Ricoh wanted to buy Pentax without any photo strategy in the first place, right? Before the purchase, during the purchase, etc. that strategy was forming already. It's not like: "Oh we got the damned thing — now lets figure out what we're gonna do with it ...".
Nobody claims that.
However, from having a generic, high level strategy in mind down to implementing specific products it's a long way.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But specifically, it is us who know nothing about that strategy. To be frank, we are only giving Pentax Ricoh endless excuses — excuses we devise ourselves — to cover up our own insecurity and interest in this matter. This summer will mark 2 years since Pentax Ricoh merger / acquisition, and still we haven't seen anything that shows their collective brain at work.
I'm only being realistic here; things that takes time takes time. That's a fact, not an excuse.
By the way, Pentax Ricoh started on 1st October 2012, and they had lots of things to do before starting formulating new products.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is us who want to be insanely surprised and therefore believe that buying us extra time will deliver some insanely great products, which will "magically help Pentax make a quantum leap over all its competitors". And make us immensely proud for being so faithful.
Glad I'm not one of you, then.
New products, higher end products are coming - that's a fact (it was also confirmed in the interviews). Still, no magic will be involved.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No it doesn't. It took Nikon less than a year to come up with the D3.
Source, please. Otherwise I would think you made that up on the spot.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
But instead, in that same year when Nikon decided to go after the FF using their best selling mount and all its faithful userbase, some peanut brain at Hoya / Pentax decided to go after the 645D, using the obscure Pentax mount compared to its hugely popular K-mount. Result? Instead of inspiring its large userbase, they've split them even further.
While I don't support Hoya's (?) decision to not invest into higher-end K-mount products, the 645D made sense; it was and is much easier for Pentax to compete on the DMF market.
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
As said above, this speculation isn't based on any facts, but on our belief that "it takes time to cook up some good magic and reward our faith". But would a good company act in such a way, and forget that it's maybe better to retain its customers and upgrading its market image by releasing incrementally better products based on current technologies?
This is how you want to see it? Anyone who doesn't think like you should be ridiculed?
Anyway, the end of the year is such a pessimistic scenario... I'd say we should see the good stuff earlier (and remember: no magic involved)
01-27-2013, 03:56 PM   #128
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My prediction:

1) GXR Ricoh Camera
2,3) Two pentax zooms
4) One new Q lens
5) Many colors of something we already have

01-27-2013, 04:33 PM   #129
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My (realistic) guess:
1) A prototype of that 17-85 (f/4?) zoom on the roadmap
2) A date for the TC
3) A 14-28 f3.2 wide zoom
01-27-2013, 04:53 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
By the way, Pentax Ricoh started on 1st October 2012
You mean 2011, right?
01-27-2013, 05:34 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I don't agree. I have my K-5 since november 2011, and the II's are just a very modest update of that camera. I'm sure they have more to show at the CP+. Just a new Ricoh is not enough...
I was expecting an aps-c above the K-5ii to be announced at CP+. Without any leaks yet and it appears that Canon isn't going to announce the 7D mk2 at CP+ I am guessing that the new Pentax APC-S flagship model will be announced at CP+. This leaves the question of what will be announced. My guess is the new Ricoh GRV, which might use an aps-c size sensor. It will also be under the Pentax name not the Ricoh name. I heard a rumor from someone that attended PMA@CES that the Ricoh name is being dropped. Also maybe the new Limited zoom and/or the new DA*16-85 or some other lens from the Lens Roadmap from last fall. A new Lens Roadmap would be nice.
01-27-2013, 05:41 PM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
Also maybe the new Limited zoom and/or the new DA*16-85 or some other lens from the Lens Roadmap from last fall. A new Lens Roadmap would be nice.
That is what I am waiting for. A DA* 16-85 is why I've been holding off on buying any other lens for the last 6 months.
01-27-2013, 07:25 PM   #133
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
My prediction:
5) Many colors of something we already have
I often use this as a joke too, but it seems that Pentax really believes that extra hundreds of colours and newly printed and laminated lens roadmaps constitute valid and viable new announcements.
In reality, it's nothing but a pathetic excuse to say "we actually have nothing to show" and that should be done in between photo shows, almost as a footnote.
01-27-2013, 07:34 PM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
I heard a rumor from someone that attended PMA@CES that the Ricoh name is being dropped.
In case they still don't know how to approach branding of certain products of Ricoh's legacy (say GRD), they can opt for dual branding. In some markets new GRD may be branded as Ricoh GRD, and in some markets that same camera may have Pentax name, say Pentax MX100. Same price, same features, just a different name.
Car manufacturers do similar with their vehicles; a totally same car is sold in the US market under one name and in Europe under a different name.
01-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
In case they still don't know how to approach branding of certain products of Ricoh's legacy (say GRD), they can opt for dual branding. In some markets new GRD may be branded as Ricoh GRD, and in some markets that same camera may have Pentax name, say Pentax MX100. Same price, same features, just a different name.
Car manufacturers do similar with their vehicles; a totally same car is sold in the US market under one name and in Europe under a different name.
Yes, so true. PMA@CES is an USA show and Ricoh brand is not that big in the USA. My salesperson that attended PMA@CES wasn't sure what the Pentax rep's statement really means.

Dave
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