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01-08-2013, 01:00 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's a P&S camera. I can't imagine the customers after this type of camera wanting to shoot with an external flash unit. Bounce flash itself is a luxury feature and I wonder how many P&S photographers would even be using that. It's not even available for dSLR inbuilt flashes yet (though I appreciate they have hotshoes).
With it's reported launch price of $500 and hardware buttons for manual controls, this isn't like a run of the mill ~$100-200 P&S. It looks more in the class of the Canon G12/G1x kind of cameras which manage to get a hotshoe on there. Yea, the MX1 is smaller than the canon, but a hot shoe doesn't look like it would add much to the height if it would even extend it above the control dial at all.

Wireless pttl with the built in flash would be awesome, someone in the market for a camera like this who owns a pentax flash or two would have an added reason to get an MX1 over a competitors offering.

I do like the MX1's style though, and the actual brass is a nice touch. While this doesn't help with the performance it does help you win camera smashing contests.

01-08-2013, 01:15 PM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's a P&S camera. I can't imagine the customers after this type of camera wanting to shoot with an external flash unit. Bounce flash itself is a luxury feature and I wonder how many P&S photographers would even be using that. It's not even available for dSLR inbuilt flashes yet (though I appreciate they have hotshoes).
I'd agree if this were a $200 pocket camera, but it is a high end P&S for people who use raw files and all kinds of higher end features. Obviously, I can imagine needing that capability, and so did other makers of high end P&S cameras. Google wireless TTL and mirrorless, and you will see that this has been a very common complaint about higher end mirrorless cameras across the board.

I'd put myself on a waiting list for this camera tomorrow if it had this capability, because it is just what my wife wanted when I bought her a K-01. We are both disappointed that the K-01 does not do wireless P-TTL.
01-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Wireless pttl with the built in flash would be awesome, someone in the market for a camera like this who owns a pentax flash or two would have an added reason to get an MX1 over a competitors offering....
Looks like we both responded the same way at the same time. To me, it fits right in with the concept of a high end P&S. The user wants the camera to be small and easy, but is willing to pay more and take a little more trouble for results at a higher level. Putting a TTL flash on a little stand stowed away in a corner aimed at the ceiling is an easy way to have flash photos that look fairly professional without doing much setup. Everyone who sees me do it wants it.

I ended up buying my wife a Sigma flash for her K-01 because she wanted to bounce. (She shoots groups indoors a lot for her newsletter at work) It looks awfully honking big on that body.

Last edited by GeneV; 01-08-2013 at 01:31 PM.
01-08-2013, 01:33 PM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
Wireless pttl with the built in flash would be awesome, someone in the market for a camera like this who owns a pentax flash or two would have an added reason to get an MX1 over a competitors offering.
Looking at the specs, it appears the MX-1 lacks Snap Focus, which along with the lack of the multi-presets (of the Adj button) and hotshoe etc I can safely say this isn't the much longed for 'GX300' as I first thought.

So I can only assume the talk last year from a Ricoh representative of a possible GRD-zoom model may still stand and will eventuate as the actual GX300. I'm just using that name because it's what the successor to the GX100 and GX200 would/should have been if the series hadn't been discontinued, but they'll probably just call it the GR Digital Zoom or something like that as the rep referred to it as.

And also, any such camera would have a genuine Ricoh GR lens rather than this third party one (assuming it is). But then I'm left wondering if having two tiers of compacts with identical zoom lengths and sensor-size would be worthwhile, ie this MX-1 version and a more 'enthusiast' GR Digital Zoom, so there's room there for speculation about the latter having a 1" sensor instead.

PS. technical question - Ricoh and Pentax flashes are incompatible, so a big question mark over any new GRD or any other Ricoh-branded camera with a hotshoe is which brand of flash will it take?

01-08-2013, 01:35 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Looks like we both responded the same way at the same time. To me, it fits right in with the concept of a high end P&S. The user wants the camera to be small and easy, but is willing to pay more and take a little more trouble for results at a higher level. Putting a TTL flash on a little stand stowed away in a corner aimed at the ceiling is an easy way to have flash photos that look fairly professional without doing much setup. Everyone who sees me do it wants it.

I ended up buying my wife a Sigma flash for her K-01 because she wanted to bounce. (She shoots groups indoors a lot for her newsletter at work) It looks awfully honking big on that body.
Can't you put a remote flash in Optical slave mode and have it fired from the flash of the camera? I know some flashes have that mode and can be fired from any flash.
01-08-2013, 01:41 PM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I'd agree if this were a $200 pocket camera, but it is a high end P&S for people who use raw files and all kinds of higher end features. Obviously, I can imagine needing that capability, and so did other makers of high end P&S cameras. Google wireless TTL and mirrorless, and you will see that this has been a very common complaint about higher end mirrorless cameras across the board.

I'd put myself on a waiting list for this camera tomorrow if it had this capability, because it is just what my wife wanted when I bought her a K-01. We are both disappointed that the K-01 does not do wireless P-TTL.
It's still a P&S camera - its price won't stay at $500 for long. If you're carrying around a flash unit that's larger and heavier than your camera, you could add a little more size and weight to have a more capable camera to be creative with your lighting.
The K-01 would be more suited to such features and I'd think that Pentax should consider the capability in the K-02.
01-08-2013, 01:44 PM - 2 Likes   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I'd agree if this were a $200 pocket camera, but it is a high end P&S for people who use raw files and all kinds of higher end features. Obviously, I can imagine needing that capability, and so did other makers of high end P&S cameras. Google wireless TTL and mirrorless, and you will see that this has been a very common complaint about higher end mirrorless cameras across the board.
To some extent I agree with you -- years ago, I based my compact camera buying decisions in large part on whether there were adequate exposure controls. That's why I bought my Pentax Optio 550 back in the early aughts, and when that kicked the bucket, why I bought my Casio Exilim Z-850. Despite being six years old, that's the compact camera I still use today. Both of these pocketable models had aperture and shutter priority modes, which were quite the rarity back then (less so now, fortunately).

But if I had wanted a hotshoe, or raw files, or for that matter 25x zoom, or interchangeable lenses, I would have had to look elsewhere. And that's okay! Those particular compacts hit the checkboxes I wanted at the time, and I was very satisfied with both cameras. It never even crossed my mind that I might want to attach an external flash to either one.

Having some enthusiast-type features available doesn't obligate a manufacturer to include ALL POSSIBLE enthusiast-type features. If someone really needs or wants a viewfinder or external flash support, this isn't the camera for them. Fortunately there exist cameras that meet those needs.

I think the MX-1 may very well be the right camera for quite a few people.
01-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrianR Quote
It looks more in the class of the Canon G12/G1x kind of cameras which manage to get a hotshoe on there.
But those Canons also have a very impressive viewfinder

01-08-2013, 01:56 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
You make good points...
However, it implies that there is no reward for innovation and being the first to do something. If that was the case, every company would offer the same products at the same time.

But there is a reward for being First...otherwise, there would be no need for Adorama or B&H to offer "Pre-Order". A large portion of customers want to be the first on their block to have the shiney new toy (not all, as you correctly pointed out).
No I do not mean to imply there is no reward for innovation. But not every single product needs to be the first in its category either. Being the first or being the best are good things but to assume that everyone pre-orders or buys a product when it first comes out is incorrect. I am sure there will be plenty pre-orders on the new X100S that was just announced same as there were for the X100 when Fuji first announced it however plenty were sold between when it was first released and yesterday.

I do not know the portion that pre-orders but one assumption I would make if forced to would be that higher end products would have a larger percent pre-orders and long waited products as well. A Pentax FF would probably have a larger share of preorders than either the MX-1 or a Nikon D4 replacement.

Other than at a buffet I can wait and not be amonst the first
01-08-2013, 02:00 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's still a P&S camera - its price won't stay at $500 for long. If you're carrying around a flash unit that's larger and heavier than your camera, you could add a little more size and weight to have a more capable camera to be creative with your lighting.
The K-01 would be more suited to such features and I'd think that Pentax should consider the capability in the K-02.
When someone wants something there is no stopping no matter how much sense you might make .
We should start a Pentax petition and call it "Give a shoe for the poor!".

...

On a more serious note, they have to leave room for improvement as well. Maybe all that is missing now, will be incorporated in later models if they plan to have some kind of series with them.

No matter what you put in a camera there will always be that small margin of people that will just complain for missing something ...
01-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
No I do not mean to imply there is no reward for innovation. But not every single product needs to be the first in its category either. Being the first or being the best are good things but to assume that everyone pre-orders or buys a product when it first comes out is incorrect. I am sure there will be plenty pre-orders on the new X100S that was just announced same as there were for the X100 when Fuji first announced it however plenty were sold between when it was first released and yesterday.

I do not know the portion that pre-orders but one assumption I would make if forced to would be that higher end products would have a larger percent pre-orders and long waited products as well. A Pentax FF would probably have a larger share of preorders than either the MX-1 or a Nikon D4 replacement.

Other than at a buffet I can wait and not be amonst the first
Yes, and it's possible that genuinely new Pentax/Ricoh-originated cameras won't start appearing till quite a bit later this year. 18 months from next June is back to not long after Ricoh took over, so anything launched over the next 3-4 months would have had a pretty quick gestation. Given what I presume are fairly long lead times for ordering and m/f, the MX1 is maybe built around a package bought in to keep the products flowing and the market interested until the really new, in-house ones come on stream. Perhaps the Ricoh influence lies in this being more ambitious than the Pentax compacts of previous years and set up in such a way that a series of upmarket MX cameras can be produced using similar design ideas.
01-08-2013, 02:22 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
. Perhaps the Ricoh influence lies in this being more ambitious than the Pentax compacts of previous years and set up in such a way that a series of upmarket MX cameras can be produced using similar design ideas.
That would be good and it makes more sense then Ricoh being able to produce a bunch of new products right away
01-08-2013, 02:26 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
No I do not mean to imply there is no reward for innovation. But not every single product needs to be the first in its category either. Being the first or being the best are good things but to assume that everyone pre-orders or buys a product when it first comes out is incorrect. I am sure there will be plenty pre-orders on the new X100S that was just announced same as there were for the X100 when Fuji first announced it however plenty were sold between when it was first released and yesterday.

I do not know the portion that pre-orders but one assumption I would make if forced to would be that higher end products would have a larger percent pre-orders and long waited products as well. A Pentax FF would probably have a larger share of preorders than either the MX-1 or a Nikon D4 replacement.

Other than at a buffet I can wait and not be amonst the first
I see where you're coming from and you are true on pretty much all counts.
I guess I was coming from the point of view that I would love for Pentax to hit a homerun like Fuji did with the X100. That camera vaulted Fuji into the spotlight and you can see it with all the "retro" look cameras. Love it, or hate it, they accomplished a lot with that camera.

I know, that is unrealistic expectations, but hey, why not?
01-08-2013, 02:31 PM   #254
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I see where you're coming from and you are true on pretty much all counts.
I guess I was coming from the point of view that I would love for Pentax to hit a homerun like Fuji did with the X100. That camera vaulted Fuji into the spotlight and you can see it with all the "retro" look cameras. Love it, or hate it, they accomplished a lot with that camera.

I know, that is unrealistic expectations, but hey, why not?
I think we mostly agree. The new X100S most likely fixes what was wrong with the X100, mainly how slow it is. Fuji was very successful with it and to me it is a great camera. But it was not an inexpensive camera.
01-08-2013, 04:00 PM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
It's still a P&S camera - its price won't stay at $500 for long. If you're carrying around a flash unit that's larger and heavier than your camera, you could add a little more size and weight to have a more capable camera to be creative with your lighting..
Not really. Many would want a high-quality pocketable camera and only carry around the bulk of an external flash when it was needed. The Olympus XZ-2, similarly priced, to which this camera has been compared, offers that capability, so I guess someone other than I thinks so.
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