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01-09-2013, 06:56 AM   #286
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Before I get any more snotty comments about complaining or "never enough," let me tell you a little more about where I'm coming from. Unlike some who are responding, I really want a camera like this with this feature, want to recommend it to others, and I know of a big market that is being missed here. Businesses everywhere are taking photos on a daily basis which have to be used in situations which require better quality than the average cell phone or point and shoot delivers, but which will be taken by people who glaze over at the sight of a DSLR.

I am a lawyer by profession. My wife is in marketing and PR. Both of us deal with photos on a daily basis which non-professionals take, but are used in a situation which demands technical quality. For her, it is for internal newsletters. Companies want something that does more good for their image than harm, but will not pay a professional photographer in this economy to shoot internal materials. Most of the shots are indoors. She and I have gone through consultations about what tool a company should purchase to do this job and even shopping trips.

I teach classes each year on how to take photos for court for two professional associations which represent property managers. The classes are very popular as it is becoming increasingly necessary that the condition of every rental unit be documented. I've also had government agencies request my materials. I have been pushing these folks for years to use cameras with good low light and indoor capabilities. I do demonstrations about sensor size and flashes. The camera genre which I have seen the most interest in from a client is the Panasonic LX series and the like--fast lenses, wide angles, emphasis on resolution rather than zoom range. No one thinks they can convince their boss to buy a DSLR, but the thing about the DSLR which most impresses people is the superior flash, and they learn how to use bounce very quickly and enthusiastically. They will buy a quality point and shoot in the sub-$500 range.

This is just one business. It is not just real estate but repair shops, and on and on as businesses which are now expected to document conditions, and they are doing it now indoors with cell phones and lousy point and shoot cameras. When they get to court, especially small claims court where they represent themselves, they soon learn that it is a contest of who has the best photos.

This camera looks just about perfect for this job, but it falls short in the flash.


Last edited by GeneV; 01-09-2013 at 07:37 AM.
01-09-2013, 07:00 AM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by kyteflyer Quote
And some of us just prefer to work with an EVF. Don't put us down because of it. (I'm not demanding that Pentax provide one, just sayin')
No arguments in there. I was only trying to make a point that if you really like the camera, you can live with it the way it is because it has everything you will need for a slightly advanced P&S camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
I didn't ask for an EVF. I just asked for external flash capability.
I've made comments for both not just the EVF.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Interesting is the comparison against the Leica X2

The MX-1 is a design copycat of the Leica X / Leica X2. Same size, design, weight. Except that the X is APS-C while the MX-1 has a tiny sensor.

So, a true copy of the Leica X to become the Pentax MX-1 at the $500 price point would have been quite an interesting proposition (the X2 is $1995). Again ... where has all the Pentax ambition has gone?

(images (c) Leica and camerasize.com )
If you squint you eyes, they all look the same .
Even my cheap P&S" Fuji something" looks like a Leica from above .

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-09-2013 at 07:10 AM.
01-09-2013, 07:08 AM - 1 Like   #288
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Before I get any more snotty comments about complaining or "never enough," let me tell you a little more about where I'm coming from. Unlike some who are responding, I really want a camera like this with this feature, want to recommend it to others, and I know of a big market that is being missed here. Businesses everywhere are taking photos on a daily basis which have to be used in situations which require better quality than the average cell phone or point and shoot delivers, but which will be taken by people who glaze over at the sight of a DSLR.

I am a lawyer by profession. My wife is in marketing and PR. Both of us deal with photos on a daily basis which non-professionals take, but are used in a situation which demands technical quality. For her, it is for internal newsletters. Companies want something that does more good for their image than harm, but will not pay a professional photographer in this economy to shoot internal materials. Most of the shots are indoors. She and I have gone through consultations about what tool a company should purchase to do this job and even shopping trips.

I teach classes each year on how to take photos for court for two professional associations which represent property managers. The classes are very popular as it is becoming increasingly necessary that the condition of every rental unit be documented. I've also had government agencies request my materials. I have been pushing these folks for years to use cameras with good low light and indoor capabilities. I do demonstrations about sensor size and flashes. The camera genre which I have had the most interest in is the Panasonic LX series and the like--fast lenses, wide angles, emphasis on resolution rather than zoom range. No one thinks they can convince their boss to buy a DSLR, but the thing about the DSLR which most impresses people is the superior flash, and they learn how to use bounce very quickly and enthusiastically. They will buy a quality point and shoot in the sub-$500 range.

This is just one business. It is not just real estate but repair shops, and on and on are businesses which are now expected to document conditions, and they are doing it now indoors with cell phones and lousy point and shoot cameras. When they get to court, especially small claims court where they represent themselves, they soon learn that it is a contest of who has the best photos.

This camera looks just about perfect for this job, but it falls short in the flash.
My comment was not meant to upset anybody.
I was only trying to say that the camera is not intended to be a work horse ... is more of a "fun camera".

I understand why you need the capability of flash ... but honestly, for the work you need, a K-01 is much better suited (and cheaper) with capability of external flash (using cheap and small flash triggers).

I understand you ... and everyone else that has similar requests. What you guys fail to understand is what this camera is for ... and that is fun. This is not a work horse; is intended for family and friends using it indoors/outdoors.
Or at least that's how I see it.

Last edited by mrNewt; 01-09-2013 at 07:15 AM.
01-09-2013, 07:19 AM   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrNewt Quote
My comment was not intended to upset anybody.
I was only trying to say that the camera is not intended to be a work horse ... is more of a "fun camera".

I understand why you need the capability of flash ... but honestly, for the work you need, a K-01 is much better suited and cheaper with capability of external flash - using cheap and small flash triggers.

I understand you ... and everyone else that has similar requests. What you guys fail to understand is what this camera is for ... and that is fun. This is not a work horse.
Is intended for family/friends using it indoors/outdoors.
Or at least that's how I see it.
A camera is a tool. Some use it for fun. I'm one of them, but I also see other uses, and it is a growing market. This market does not demand and will not buy a professional workhorse.

A K-01 does not sell in this instance because businesses don't want to pay for a body and a fast lens (especially since they may be purchasing more than one), and with these advanced P&S cameras, they get a fast lens, decent high ISO and good indoor capabilities in one price. They can add the flash if they need it.

01-09-2013, 07:23 AM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
A camera is a tool. Some use it for fun. I'm one of them, but I also see other uses, and it is a growing market. This market does not demand and will not buy a professional workhorse.

A K-01 does not sell in this instance because businesses don't want to pay for a body and a fast lens (especially since they may be purchasing more than one), and with these P&S cameras, they get a fast lens, decent high ISO and good indoor capabilities in one price. They can add the flash if they need it.
Then I'm really sorry Pentax disappointed you ... maybe a future MX-2 (if there is one) will have what you need.

A camera is a tool ... but each tool has its own way to be used. Might be similar with others, but can be used only in specific ways, based on how it was designed to be used.
01-09-2013, 07:35 AM   #291
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It is not a matter of personal disappointment, and no one needs either to apologize for Pentax. I see one purpose of this forum to be giving the manufacturer who sponsors it some feedback on customer needs. Of course it is fine if others point out they don't have those needs.

Last edited by GeneV; 01-09-2013 at 07:40 AM.
01-09-2013, 07:41 AM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
It is not a matter of personal disappointment, and no one needs either to apologize for Pentax. I see one purpose of this forum to be giving the manufacturer who sponsors it some feedback on customer needs. Of course it is fine if others point out they don't have those needs.
Completely in agreement with you!
01-09-2013, 07:48 AM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Interesting is the comparison against the Leica X2



The MX-1 is a design copycat of the Leica X / Leica X2. Same size, design, weight. Except that the X is APS-C while the MX-1 has a tiny sensor.

So, a true copy of the Leica X to become the Pentax MX-1 at the $500 price point would have been quite an interesting proposition (the X2 is $1995). Again ... where has all the Pentax ambition has gone?

(images (c) Leica and camerasize.com )
Could you make a chart with the comparative prices of those cameras? It would be more suggestive than only mentioning them.
Thank you

Pentax is more ambitious than ever, but! they will not put their best ambitions into every project. Yes, they will continue to make compacts, low end cameras and lenses, necessary to appeal not only to a small high-end niche.
I strongly believe they will have a very ambitious product launch this year.

01-09-2013, 07:53 AM   #294
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One interesting fact on the business-use side is that having an interchangeable lens, like the Q or K01, is actually seen as a disadvantage. It is one more expensive component to lose, break or to have stolen as the camera is passed to different employees. One also has to contend with damage or dirt on the sensor if the lens is removed.

This camera, along with the Panasonic LX-, Canon G-, and Olympus XZ- series are right in the sweet spot for this purpose. Of those, unfortunately, only the Pentax lacks external flash.
01-09-2013, 07:55 AM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
This camera looks just about perfect for this job, but it falls short in the flash.
Frank mentioned the inbuilt flash can be tilted back to give vertical bounce, like on the Sony RX100 (which also lacks a hotshoe).
01-09-2013, 08:02 AM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
What slightly confuses me, is that the Q10 suddenly comes in 100 colors and this camera has a more serious sensor.

Would there be room for a 1/1.7" sensor in a Q series camera? If there is, I think we'll see a "high end Q" soon.
I believe they made the Q image circle large enough to do so, but primarily for the purposes of sensor stabilzation so the corners of the 1/2.3" would stay within the diameter when it moved. So it would certainly be possible to fit a 1/1.7" but it would likely have to be stationary, so without SR.
01-09-2013, 08:07 AM   #297
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This forum is not sponsored by Pentax. At last year's CP+ (if I recall correctly), PentaxForums arranged an interview with a Pentax executive. He seemed barely aware of PF's existence, and was genuinely surprised to hear of PF's lens database, for example.

Pentax's product lines have been much more Japan-market centric than any other Japanese camera maker, and at least until Ricoh's involvement, Pentax showed little interest in the USA market, apparently being content with a remarkably inept USA distributor.

Improving product by seeking customer input (aside from watching sales figures) doesn't seem to be part of Pentax's DNA. Even more unlikely from USA customers. Hopefully Ricoh's influence can change that.

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
It is not a matter of personal disappointment, and no one needs either to apologize for Pentax. I see one purpose of this forum to be giving the manufacturer who sponsors it some feedback on customer needs. Of course it is fine if others point out they don't have those needs.
01-09-2013, 08:18 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
A K-01 does not sell in this instance because businesses don't want to pay for a body and a fast lens (especially since they may be purchasing more than one), and with these advanced P&S cameras, they get a fast lens, decent high ISO and good indoor capabilities in one price. They can add the flash if they need it.
I think the Samsung is the only camera in this segment with better than F/7 lens on equivalent basis.

I.e. you'd get less noisy pics with the K-01 and the 18-55 lens.
01-09-2013, 08:20 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by anthony mazzeri Quote
Frank mentioned the inbuilt flash can be tilted back to give vertical bounce, like on the Sony RX100 (which also lacks a hotshoe).
If it has enough power to do that job, it would be excellent (for the same reason as the issue with the interchangeable lenses).
01-09-2013, 08:23 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
If it has enough power to do that job, it would be excellent (for the same reason as the issue with the interchangeable lenses).
For the size of those lenses it should be more than enough ... that's what I have been preaching all along .
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