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02-23-2008, 11:10 AM   #1
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K20 ISO jpegs by Jim King

Jim was kind enough to post jpegs from his new K20D over on the other forum and I downloaded them. Thanks Jim!!! Although I'm going to wait to see some comparative RAW files from a K10D and a K20D before making a final decision, I think these show that the K20D does a very good job all the way up through ISO 6400 when compared to a K10D. Noise is a very subjective thing and each one of us have our own level of acceptance.

Comparing Nikon D300 and K20D noise levels doesn't concern me because I can't see spending the $$$'s to make the switch. To me it looks like you can use ISO 6400 and come close to what you would get from a K10D ISO 1600 image. A 3200 image would clean up a lot better than a 1600 from a K10D, or at least that's what these jpegs seem to indicate. So 1 stop better, maybe 2 in a pinch. Not a bad improvement especially with the better resolution at lower ISO's.

Still have to see if the "catch in focus" feature has any effect of AF speed.

Regards,

Ken

02-23-2008, 07:23 PM   #2
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Thanks for the kind words, Ken. if anybody here wants to download my noise test images made with the K20D at various NR settings and comparison shots made with the K10d and *ist-D they are available for downloading at: iDisk Public Folder (Graphite)
Be sure to share your thoughts and opinions!
02-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesk8752 Quote
Thanks for the kind words, Ken. if anybody here wants to download my noise test images made with the K20D at various NR settings and comparison shots made with the K10d and *ist-D they are available for downloading at: iDisk Public Folder (Graphite)
Be sure to share your thoughts and opinions!
Got any room on there for some PEF/DNG's of (surprise)low iso's GordonBGood and John Sheehy
had an interest in these...
02-23-2008, 07:45 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by jamesk8752 Quote
Be sure to share your thoughts and opinions!
Jim,
I've been trying to compare the K20D ISO 3200 no NR to the K10D 1600 image. Even though there is more noise in the K20D image, the detail seems to be better. It appears you can apply more NR to the K20D image, get a as clean an image and still have better detail retention than the K10D image. Is this in line with what you are seeing?

Thanks,

ken

02-23-2008, 09:16 PM   #5
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thanks Jim for your effort, but can I ask you some questions ?

How is the autofocus (the normal one and the new trap focus) ? Faster ? Accurate ?

How is the LCD compared to the K10D ? Big improvement in terms of clarity, detail, angle ?

How is the live view ? Did you tried to use the 21 fps mode ? If so, when you have time, maybe you can upload some pictures from the 21 fps burst, because on the preproduction model I've seen some strange patterns(jagged edges) in the burst images...

thanks
02-24-2008, 01:48 AM   #6
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Does this new sensor have any kind of pattern noise like the infamous VPN?
02-24-2008, 02:19 AM   #7
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Thanks for taking the time. Can the NR be set to default to independant levels per ISO? (aside from 6400 auto-strong) It would nice to have it off for 1-200, weakest for 400, weak for 800, etc.
02-24-2008, 10:09 AM   #8
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Less MP's?

The more I study these samples the more the same thought keeps coming up. While the extra 4 MP does increase resolution slightly over the K10D I wonder how much the noise could have been reduced if they had left it at 10MP or boosted it to just 12MP's. It is what it is and I suspect this is a case of marketing trumping engineering.

Regards,

Ken

02-24-2008, 11:45 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
The more I study these samples the more the same thought keeps coming up. While the extra 4 MP does increase resolution slightly over the K10D I wonder how much the noise could have been reduced if they had left it at 10MP or boosted it to just 12MP's. It is what it is and I suspect this is a case of marketing trumping engineering.
I think you're probably right, but I also think they're going to sell a lot more with the high-mpix approach it's going to look a lot more impressive at the camera store to people who don't really know enough about the real details but can latch onto that simple number. So, it's hard to really fault them.
02-24-2008, 11:48 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by HawaiianOnline Quote
Does this new sensor have any kind of pattern noise like the infamous VPN?
There has been none found to date, even on pre-release samples.
02-24-2008, 05:34 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Got any room on there for some PEF/DNG's of (surprise)low iso's GordonBGood and John Sheehy
had an interest in these...
Today I sent Gordon several test shots at ISO 100 in PEF for analysis of the low ISO noise floor.

Regards, Jim
02-24-2008, 05:37 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
Jim,
I've been trying to compare the K20D ISO 3200 no NR to the K10D 1600 image. Even though there is more noise in the K20D image, the detail seems to be better. It appears you can apply more NR to the K20D image, get a as clean an image and still have better detail retention than the K10D image. Is this in line with what you are seeing?

Thanks,

ken
I haven't done a lot of shooting beyond the various test images i've posted. My impression is that you are correct. I was amazed at my results with high ISO JPG mages in NoiseWare Pro. Other than loss of shadow detail they are great! I'm just starting to experiment with RAWs.

Regards, Jim

Last edited by jamesk8752; 02-24-2008 at 05:54 PM.
02-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by raz Quote
thanks Jim for your effort, but can I ask you some questions ?

How is the autofocus (the normal one and the new trap focus) ? Faster ? Accurate ?

How is the LCD compared to the K10D ? Big improvement in terms of clarity, detail, angle ?

How is the live view ? Did you tried to use the 21 fps mode ? If so, when you have time, maybe you can upload some pictures from the 21 fps burst, because on the preproduction model I've seen some strange patterns(jagged edges) in the burst images...

thanks
- K20D AF seems faster than with my K10D in low light. Haven't tried trap focus yet.
- I really haven't noticed much improvement in the LCD but it's definitely better.
- Live view works but I really don't see myself using it very much. Like all EVFs it lags a bit in updating the image, and I've always preferred a live optical VF. Haven't tried the 21FPS burst mode yet - another gimmick IMO, although same may find a use for it.

Regards, Jim
02-24-2008, 05:46 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by HawaiianOnline Quote
Does this new sensor have any kind of pattern noise like the infamous VPN?
No trace of VPN; the shadow noise is very fine-grained and filmlike at low and medium ISOs. The results one can get with an external program like Noiseware Pro are amazing!

I must confess that I never had a problem with my K10D in that respect; others have said that I must have gotten an excellent copy...

Regards, Jim
02-24-2008, 05:48 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by thePiRaTE!! Quote
Thanks for taking the time. Can the NR be set to default to independant levels per ISO? (aside from 6400 auto-strong) It would nice to have it off for 1-200, weakest for 400, weak for 800, etc.
Good question - it seems that one must select a single NR level for all ISOs, but I believe that the software is smart enough to apply it to different degrees depending on the ISO of each individual shot. And the NR for ISO 6400 is set at strong no matter what you select in the High ISO NR menu
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