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03-02-2013, 04:47 AM   #166
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c-autofocus

QuoteOriginally posted by dane.dawg Quote
I disagree with this statement, my results with the k-5 and sigma combo has worked very well this winter for Eagles in flight..
I did not intend to say that you can't get birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo. I get them reliably when I'm using good technique and the birds are large and predictable in their movements. This is one I'm happy with. The Osprey came back towards me repeatedly so I had time to track and nail it, even up close. This was with center point focus. I wouldn't have considered using continuous autofocus -- it just doesn't work reliably or predictably for me.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/oeriies/ducks%20and%20birds/ospreyo...ntrancemay.jpg


But while it is clearly possible to catch birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo I can't believe that a camera with 51 autofocus points, some small and cross-hatched, and a sophisticated continuous autofocus system taken from their pro body (the Nikon D7100) isn't going to do a better job than the k-5 with 11 autofocus points. Surely I'm not alone in feeling that Pentax has inferior continuous autofocus and needs to make big improvements in that area.

Cheers,

Russ

03-02-2013, 07:13 AM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Greyser Quote
I went through all bird images. They look nice, contrast, and sharp. However, I'd like to see the closer shots, indeed. Also the bokeh is kind of on a dark side.
Yep. Well at least it doesn't look like a lemon.
How good (or OKish) is another question.
03-02-2013, 07:15 AM   #168
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I agree with you oeriies and I am also hoping the K-3 CAF tracking will be much improved over the K-5s..
03-02-2013, 08:51 AM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by oeriies Quote
I did not intend to say that you can't get birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo. I get them reliably when I'm using good technique and the birds are large and predictable in their movements. This is one I'm happy with. The Osprey came back towards me repeatedly so I had time to track and nail it, even up close. This was with center point focus. I wouldn't have considered using continuous autofocus -- it just doesn't work reliably or predictably for me.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/oeriies/ducks%20and%20birds/ospreyo...ntrancemay.jpg


But while it is clearly possible to catch birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo I can't believe that a camera with 51 autofocus points, some small and cross-hatched, and a sophisticated continuous autofocus system taken from their pro body (the Nikon D7100) isn't going to do a better job than the k-5 with 11 autofocus points. Surely I'm not alone in feeling that Pentax has inferior continuous autofocus and needs to make big improvements in that area.

Cheers,

Russ
Agreed with you. I also encountered similar problem with you when using K-5 + Sigma545.

03-02-2013, 08:56 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by oeriies Quote
I did not intend to say that you can't get birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo. I get them reliably when I'm using good technique and the birds are large and predictable in their movements. This is one I'm happy with. The Osprey came back towards me repeatedly so I had time to track and nail it, even up close. This was with center point focus. I wouldn't have considered using continuous autofocus -- it just doesn't work reliably or predictably for me.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/oeriies/ducks%20and%20birds/ospreyo...ntrancemay.jpg


But while it is clearly possible to catch birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo I can't believe that a camera with 51 autofocus points, some small and cross-hatched, and a sophisticated continuous autofocus system taken from their pro body (the Nikon D7100) isn't going to do a better job than the k-5 with 11 autofocus points. Surely I'm not alone in feeling that Pentax has inferior continuous autofocus and needs to make big improvements in that area.

Cheers,

Russ
AF.C doesn't work for me well either. Nice shooting, BTW.

Last edited by Greyser; 03-02-2013 at 09:24 AM.
03-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #171
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QuoteOriginally posted by oeriies Quote
I did not intend to say that you can't get birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo. I get them reliably when I'm using good technique and the birds are large and predictable in their movements. This is one I'm happy with. The Osprey came back towards me repeatedly so I had time to track and nail it, even up close. This was with center point focus. I wouldn't have considered using continuous autofocus -- it just doesn't work reliably or predictably for me.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/oeriies/ducks%20and%20birds/ospreyo...ntrancemay.jpg


But while it is clearly possible to catch birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo I can't believe that a camera with 51 autofocus points, some small and cross-hatched, and a sophisticated continuous autofocus system taken from their pro body (the Nikon D7100) isn't going to do a better job than the k-5 with 11 autofocus points. Surely I'm not alone in feeling that Pentax has inferior continuous autofocus and needs to make big improvements in that area.

Cheers,

Russ
I Just choose not to believe in anything based on obscure specs like the number of auto-focus points. If someone finds a way to get it done with 1 autofocus point I'll go for that if it works better. People were already commenting on the improved AF focus tracking in the K-30 and that system was incorporated into the K-5II. If you're discussing the K-5 you're discussing 2.5 year old technology.
03-02-2013, 09:56 AM - 1 Like   #172
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None of the pics posted show evidence of it being worth its used car price tag.
Whether people want to admit it or not, its price places it in the range of CaNikon's exotic telephotos. Those lenses have straight lines across the top of their MTF charts. They are optimized to be used wide open and have absolutely minimal CA.
Not to mention the top notch TCs that are available with those systems. Releasing this lens with no TC is like selling a row boat with no paddles.
03-03-2013, 08:06 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
People were already commenting on the improved AF focus tracking in the K-30 and that system was incorporated into the K-5II. If you're discussing the K-5 you're discussing 2.5 year old technology.
I know of no test worth a mention that K-30 features improved AF.C performance.

As for old technology, the D7100's AF dates back more than 5 years... (MultiCam 3500 was introduced in 2007 with the D3, all differences since ("Advanced, DX/FX) are marginal).

New technology would be the 61-AF module in the EOS-1D X which has better support for improved AF.S accuracy and a faster response time. But the basic AF.C tricks it plays are the same (skin tone detection in the 100k metering sensor and autoselection of the proper AF point, something Nikon also does but an 11 point module cannot).

For tracking, the number of AF points is crucial. It allows the algorithm to predict a switch of AF point and to keep focussing the same feature. Which means, the measured distance doesn't jump as much and allows to predict distance too. Combined, it allows to focus on moving subjects. An 11 point AF (like Nikon's MultiCam 1000) only allows AF.C to work properly for a subject coming straight at you, or moving slowly. And even then, you still may need a tripod to keep the subject centered.

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
None of the pics posted show evidence of it being worth its used car price tag.
Whether people want to admit it or not, its price places it in the range of CaNikon's exotic telephotos. Those lenses have straight lines across the top of their MTF charts. They are optimized to be used wide open and have absolutely minimal CA.
Not to mention the top notch TCs that are available with those systems. Releasing this lens with no TC is like selling a row boat with no paddles.
Good summary. Thanks.

But the verdict about the 560's MTF and TC capability is still open. And MTF is the only information about the 560 which I am interested in ATM. It is a shame Pentax doesn't publsh that like other vendors do.


Last edited by falconeye; 03-03-2013 at 08:22 AM.
03-03-2013, 08:21 AM   #174
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QuoteQuote:
I know of no test worth a mention that K-30 features improved AF.C performance.
Do you know of any tests at all with regards to this subject? The only evidence I've seen has been speculative, but, in the absence of anything better, I tend to listen to speculation informed by a product user with a certain degree of scepticism to compensate for user bias.

So when someone claims that in their experience the AF tracks better, I like to throw that out there and see if someone has something. Especially when I have nothing. I'm not sure if you said "I don't believe the auto-focus is better" - or "I got nothing."

I recently got an A-400 5.6 for $450. It's completely taken away any desire I had own a 560mm. The A-400 is light, easy to carry, and I love the way the manual focus works. At this point, I doubt I'd take it out of the house and use the 560 unless someone was paying me to use it. I did use the Pentax 1.7 TC with the A-400 and the purple fringing was un-acceptable. I may try it again in the summer, I'm sure the black oil seeds in the snow were pushing the limits for any lens TC combination.
03-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Do you know of any tests at all with regards to this subject? The only evidence I've seen has been speculative, but, in the absence of anything better, I tend to listen to speculation informed by a product user with a certain degree of scepticism to compensate for user bias.

So when someone claims that in their experience the AF tracks better, I like to throw that out there and see if someone has something. Especially when I have nothing. I'm not sure if you said "I don't believe the auto-focus is better" - or "I got nothing."

I recently got an A-400 5.6 for $450. It's completely taken away any desire I had own a 560mm. The A-400 is light, easy to carry, and I love the way the manual focus works. At this point, I doubt I'd take it out of the house and use the 560 unless someone was paying me to use it. I did use the Pentax 1.7 TC with the A-400 and the purple fringing was un-acceptable. I may try it again in the summer, I'm sure the black oil seeds in the snow were pushing the limits for any lens TC combination.
I also recently got a manual focus 400mm f/5.6 (the sigma APO), and I'm enjoying it a lot. The reach/weight/cost ratio is excellent. However, longer, faster, better optically, with (better) AF, and weather sealing does sound very appealing.

But where are those full res sample pictures from the 560!?!?!?!

Meanwhile, maybe i should buy a hide and some lottery tickets...
03-03-2013, 10:10 PM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by oeriies Quote
I did not intend to say that you can't get birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo. I get them reliably when I'm using good technique and the birds are large and predictable in their movements. This is one I'm happy with. The Osprey came back towards me repeatedly so I had time to track and nail it, even up close. This was with center point focus. I wouldn't have considered using continuous autofocus -- it just doesn't work reliably or predictably for me.



But while it is clearly possible to catch birds in flight with the k-5 sigma combo I can't believe that a camera with 51 autofocus points, some small and cross-hatched, and a sophisticated continuous autofocus system taken from their pro body (the Nikon D7100) isn't going to do a better job than the k-5 with 11 autofocus points. Surely I'm not alone in feeling that Pentax has inferior continuous autofocus and needs to make big improvements in that area.

Cheers,

Russ
I'll second dane.dawg. I was quite impressed with the k5 DA*300 when I was shooting hawks. Most in focus, tracking was just fine. Smaller points would be ok, but my friend who shoots with a nikon D7000, (7100 on order) and a 300 2.8 witha 2x TC had more trouble than I did. I was using af-c. More points being smaller helps at longer distance or picking something out of a busy background.

This lens needs at least the K5II with better low light focus. I regularly run into situations where my DA*300 doesn't focus in low light conditions. Another stop darker would be a killer on the k5.

The limits of my gear are the physical speed of the DA300 in AF response, the low light focus capability of my K5, and how the body bogs down, then gets behind in focus, exposure after 7 or 8 shots continuous.

This lens is not that interesting to me. Too slow, too long. The IQ and focus speed and handling would have to be exceptional to regain my attention.

As for the speed of the review, I doubt anyone could come up with a reasoned opinion of a long lens in less than a couple weeks usage. First impressions are ok, but with a long lens like this first impressions are usually that it isn't very good, and the question is whether it is the lens or technique.
03-03-2013, 10:18 PM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by miles Quote
But where are those full res sample pictures from the 560!?!?!?!
No birds for you yet, but feel free to pixel peep these test charts (center):

F5.6 / 8 / 11 (center)
https://themotec1.netfirms.com/Users/Hosted/cdn/DA560/DA560-A-ctr-F056_130226_22s_w.tif
https://themotec1.netfirms.com/Users/Hosted/cdn/DA560/DA560-A-ctr-F080_130226_23s_w.tif
https://themotec1.netfirms.com/Users/Hosted/cdn/DA560/DA560-A-ctr-F110_130226_24s_w.tif

F* 250-600mm at F5.6, for comparison, center:
https://themotec1.netfirms.com/Users/Hosted/cdn/DA560/F520-A-ctr-F056_130226_80s_w.tif

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03-04-2013, 02:09 AM   #178
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FA is sharper across the frame. But why FL was set to 520mm instead of 560mm ?
03-04-2013, 03:47 AM   #179
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One would expect a prime lens at this price to outperform a zoom. At least in terms of image quality.

These are the first images I see, and it is definitely all too early to draw any conclusions.
In the center there does not seem to be that much difference. But in the corners at f 5,6 the FA appears sharper.

But letīs not jump into conclusions! Look forward to seeing more images and data!
03-04-2013, 05:18 AM   #180
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The first shots confirm my fears... the legacy Pentax lenses (FA250-600, FA*600) are probably optically better. Let us see how it performs vs the sigma 500
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