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02-25-2008, 07:16 AM   #1
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Why Pentax not upgrade their AF?

*ist
*ist D
*ist DL
*ist DS
*ist DS2
GX-1S
GX-1L
K100D
K110D
K100D super
K10D
GX-10
K20D
GX-20

Pentax using same SAFOX VIII AF module about 5 years!

Why not upgrade AF sensor?

Is there any problem of Pentax AF module?

Is Pentax can produce their own AF module?

Is there any good news about new AF module?

or.. K20Ds or K30D, with SAFOX VIII 7 year anivarsary?



02-25-2008, 07:21 AM   #2
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I think it was recently commented by Pentax representatives that they decided to focus on what they consider most important (new sensor, stunning image quality, better quality at low light) and let other areas for later improvement, including AF. I think they also mentioned it was not possible (possibly on budget grounds) to address all issues at the same time.
02-25-2008, 07:29 AM   #3
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The good news is that the existing system is very accurate and, actually, reasonably fast. It also features more focus points then you'll see in most cameras at comparable price points.
02-25-2008, 07:49 AM   #4
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Next big upgrade is AF. They had a budget/manpower choice of doing CMOS to compete w/ the D300/40D or AF. They chose the better image sensor...

02-25-2008, 08:00 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by miriya Quote
*ist
*ist D
*ist DL
*ist DS
*ist DS2
GX-1S
GX-1L
K100D
K110D
K100D super
K10D
GX-10
K20D
GX-20

Pentax using same SAFOX VIII AF module about 5 years!
Yes, you're exactly correct for all the models listed!

QuoteQuote:
Why not upgrade AF sensor?
Like you, I also had a hard time to scratch my head repeatedly!

QuoteQuote:
Is there any problem of Pentax AF module?
Yes, slugglish low light performance and serious AF huntings, Front Focusing when shot in tungsten lightings with faster and longer lenses, inability to trace fast moving object at a speed towards and away from the camera, inability to trace continuously for a randomly moving object (at least as compared to Canon's and Nikon's upper DSLR models)

QuoteQuote:
Is Pentax can produce their own AF module?
Yes, of course they can. So, there are STILL hopes.

QuoteQuote:
Is there any good news about new AF module?
Nope.

QuoteQuote:
or.. K20Ds or K30D, with SAFOX VIII 7 year anivarsary?
Oh, No! :-o
02-25-2008, 08:03 AM   #6
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"The most important aspects"

QuoteOriginally posted by cateto Quote
I think it was recently commented by Pentax representatives that they decided to focus on what they consider most important (new sensor, stunning image quality, better quality at low light) and let other areas for later improvement, including AF. I think they also mentioned it was not possible (possibly on budget grounds) to address all issues at the same time.
The two most important areas for a CAMERA are 1. Focusing Accuracy; 2. Exposure Accuracy, in my very humble opinions.

What image quality can the user gets if the pictures taken have gone out of focus or have been exposed badly??
02-25-2008, 08:05 AM   #7
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RH you're wrong. The most critical aspect of a digital camera first and foremost is its SENSOR.

You make it sound like Pentax's AF is hopeless. Well it isn't in my book. As to exposure, a good photographer is one who knows when the metering system is likely to give an incorrect reading. Don't blame the equipment if you have bad technique or lack photographic knowledge.

BTW why don't you post some pictures to substantiate your claims, since you're the authority in carrying out pseudo measurements.

Last edited by creampuff; 02-25-2008 at 08:11 AM.
02-25-2008, 08:43 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
The two most important areas for a CAMERA are 1. Focusing Accuracy; 2. Exposure Accuracy, in my very humble opinions.

What image quality can the user gets if the pictures taken have gone out of focus or have been exposed badly??
The most importants areas for any camera of any brand are three:

1) Image quality
2) Image quality
3) Image quality

In my hands (which correspond to someone who actually takes pictures with a Pentax K10D, not someone whose job is to complain systematically), the current AF Pentax system works fine in most cases, although obviously there is room for improvement under low light. And it seems Pentax got a clear image quality improvement with the K20D. So in my book, they took the right decision.

02-25-2008, 09:28 AM   #9
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SAFOX VIII is very good AF system on paper.
Pentax made improvement of AF in all new cameras.
K100D is faster than ist* - at least 2-3 times, K10D is faster than K100, K20D is faster than K10D and more accurate. Pentax will launch K1D with new AF system next year.
02-25-2008, 09:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
RH you're wrong. The most critical aspect of a digital camera first and foremost is its SENSOR.

You make it sound like Pentax's AF is hopeless. Well it isn't in my book. As to exposure, a good photographer is one who knows when the metering system is likely to give an incorrect reading. Don't blame the equipment if you have bad technique or lack photographic knowledge.

BTW why don't you post some pictures to substantiate your claims, since you're the authority in carrying out pseudo measurements.
No he isn't. It's all part of the total package....sensor, AF, Exposure, Flash. They all work together and if one part isn't up to par, it drags the rest of the package down. You may not use flash, or you may not use AF-C for your shooting, or you may find that you don't need to adjust your exposure to get the results you're after. Fair enough. However, as someone who uses AF-C quite a bit, I can say that between the DS2 and k10D, there were differences and not all of them favour the k10d.

With the k10d in AF-C, I've nailed my dog charging at me head-on in over-cast conditions. I've also missed critical focus on a birds eye when it's just sitting there or moving slowly (something my DS2 could handle)....to the point where I had to switch to manual focus to finally get the shot. I've got a pretty good idea of what Pentax AF can/can't do and how often it will do it. I've been pleased and dissapointed with what it will do. No, it's not hopeless, but there's vast amounts of room for things to improve on that front as far as I'm concerned.

Now, I don't think AF is as bad as RH states, but neither is it as good as some here seem to think it is. Like everything, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Whether you use it or rely on it makes the difference.
02-25-2008, 09:37 AM   #11
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If the end picture is no good or something like A700, I don't care AF, I'd like to see beautiful picture with the best lenses in the world. Pentax offer me this way. Anyway I can use MF. I'd like to see better AF and I see better AF in every new cameras from Pentax. I hope that we will see new AF system next year.
For example, A700 has very good AF, but I don't like the IQ of Sony's style pictures and double work under RAW with in-camera image processor. Pentax doesn't compete with Nikon and Canon in reportage/sport niche. I see progress in AF system. Yes, it's SAFOX VIII, but it's various versions of SAVOX III. I hope that K20/200D are the last cameras with SAVOX III.
02-25-2008, 09:46 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Yes, you're exactly correct for all the models listed!
Indeed


QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Like you, I also had a hard time to scratch my head repeatedly!
Yeah but may have needed more time to develop as it may have required some serious bodywork.
Anyways, at least you got rid of that itch on your head


QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Yes, slugglish low light performance and serious AF huntings, Front Focusing when shot in tungsten lightings with faster and longer lenses
Odd, I had backfocus....

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
, inability to trace fast moving object at a speed towards and away from the camera,
It may ofcourse depend on WHAT you shoot but if it is fast AND coming my way, my first thought would be to get the **** out of there, and only then "D**, missed a shot" But I would not be able to tell you if I missed that shot because I jumped away of because of focus...
And if it moves away it generally is not that interesting anymore. Or it it soooo exciting that I forget to shoot.

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
inability to trace continuously for a randomly moving object (at least as compared to Canon's and Nikon's upper DSLR models)
No problems here, not even with lawnmowerraces and tractorpulling. Have yet to try combine racing


QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Yes, of course they can. So, there are STILL hopes.
we agree


QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Nope.
Forgot what this was about

[QUOTE=RiceHigh;183701
Oh, No! :-o
[/QUOTE]
ooh yes Another three years and Pnetax will celebrate worldwide and you may be the guest of honour.

All in all, they missed a few thing. Some if these things can really be considered a "miss"but others probably could not have been implemented in this model, I am sure a better focusing camera is under development right now. They may have waited to reklease a new model when the new AF was ready, but my guess is there'd be wailing all over that Pentax was dead.

Last edited by janneman; 02-25-2008 at 09:51 AM.
02-25-2008, 09:46 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Yes, you're exactly correct for all the models listed!
Since you are a measurbator, please tell me what percent of the canon shots are missed ? You know, the ones made with the super dooper fast AF ?

If you say the keepers are better than Pentax, I don't believe you , from my findings, it misses quite A LOT compared to Pentax, which in my opinion is very accurate most of the times (even if it's slow with bad light).
02-25-2008, 09:47 AM   #14
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Look - Both Canon and Nikon experts say to use single point AF or limit the AF group to 9 points for increased speed and accuracy using their top of the line cameras EOS 1Dx and D3. 51 points is marketing hype - end of.
02-25-2008, 10:47 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom M Quote
Look - Both Canon and Nikon experts say to use single point AF or limit the AF group to 9 points for increased speed and accuracy using their top of the line cameras EOS 1Dx and D3. 51 points is marketing hype - end of.
Yep BUT, the AF thingy that measures the distance for the focus could:
a- be as tiny as possible
b- correspond with the AF indicvator in the viewfinder
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