K20D VS Canon 40D High ISO (Not 56K Friendly)

Rickster · 02-27-2008, 01:25 AM

In the images I posted above the orientation is ...

K20D - D40
K20D - D40
D40 - K20D

In each case the K20D out performs the D40 IMHO.

I am very impressed with the K20D's noise performance and will be adding this tool to my kit as funds allow.

Rickster · 02-27-2008, 01:59 AM

I processed the 3200 ISO image ... it looks like the light source was flourescent as I had to tweak the red channel a bit for hue and saturation. Maybe that is why the 40D images have the red shift.

Here is the K20D 3200 ISO -> Noiseware Pro - Resize 50% - Resize 50% - Hue and Saturation - Smart Sharpening .5 50%

This should give a good idea of what a print should look like. I like it!

Thank you Chris for the images! By the way, was the lighting fluorescent?

jaad75 · 02-27-2008, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by Rickster

800

1600

3200

Which images above have the least noise and highest detail?

They are focused differently - you can't compare them.

Rickster · 02-27-2008, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by jaad75

They are focused differently - you can't compare them.

Excuse me? Just what does focus have to do with noise?

As far the detail goes, in all 6 images the mirror box appears to be well within the DOF.

Last edited by Rickster; 02-27-2008 at 03:08 AM.

jaad75 · 02-27-2008, 04:50 AM

I was takling about details - focus point was different, so even if the mirror box was *within* DOF, Canon would have less detail.
The problem with K20D image is different WB - the blue channel is working much harder, so I don't think you can compare noise either...
Overally, I think those samples are very poor if we are talking about fair comparison.

little laker · 02-27-2008, 08:37 AM

I find the Pentax looks like the nicer High ISO picture, but I'm not surprised.

I also feel that the real test is the actual print quality, on poster sized paper of course. But I would think that the Pentax would win here as well

Rickster · 02-27-2008, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by jaad75

I was takling about details - focus point was different, so even if the mirror box was *within* DOF, Canon would have less detail.
The problem with K20D image is different WB - the blue channel is working much harder, so I don't think you can compare noise either...
Overally, I think those samples are very poor if we are talking about fair comparison.

I think prints from both cameras will be excellent with an edge to the K20D for resolution. They are both excellent cameras.

By the way, I'm not a Pentax fanboy. I've shot with Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Bronica and Hasselblad over my 35 year career in photography.

Last edited by Rickster; 02-27-2008 at 09:19 AM.

ankit · 02-27-2008, 09:00 AM

I think what this test (and the one with A700) really shows is that there is very little separating these cameras, and the difference is marginal and requires pixel peeping. What is more important is the how the camera feels in your hand, the user interface, the speed/responsiveness, the AF accuracy, and the lenses.

TDN · 02-27-2008, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by svenphoto

well, I am actually impressed.....by the camera i was not hoping for to be impressed by. The last pics i saw on a japanese or korean review site where absolutly in favour of the k20d, the 40d being less detailed or sharp, (less mpix..i guess). noisewise the k20 was only second after the d3, so better than the d300, and 40d.

Now what i see and interprid as (pls. correct me if i am wrong) the k20d being more noisy and less colour accurate. reds seem fine, but what about the yellows on the left of the pic, and the wood colour tone. somehow it doesnt look like wb, but i could be wrong...

After handling the d300 last weekend at a studioshoot in not too bright lights, i was so impressed by it ,and had so much trouble handling my k10d da* 50-135 ,couse it hunted for focus all the time, i just coudn't keep up with the model, with the d300 (wich is not mine) i could! I was the only pentax user at the workshop shoot, and proud, but i was not so sure why anymore.

I was hoping for a upgrade, but i guess i might have to sit it out and wait for the next pentax. This is really the first time since i follow the intro of the k20d that i begin to feel a bit disappointed with the pentax system.

Can somebody please bring back my pentax proudness,and hope?!

thanks in advance

Nikon D300: € 1575.00

Pentax K10D: € 615.00

Pentax K20D: € 995.00

For almost €1000 difference with the K10D, the D300 better be better...
The fact that the 2 are even being compared is a compliment to Pentax

I have no doubt the K20D will be able to hold its ground next to the big guns.

Tom

Gooshin · 02-27-2008, 10:06 AM

this is what i'm seeing:

more noise in the K20D, but much better detail,

and its better to take something out (noise reduction post processing with loss of detail) vs not having any detail to work with at all.

SouthShoreRob · 02-27-2008, 10:53 AM

No offense, but in 2008, who's still using dial-up, lol?

Thanks for the side by side comparison shots. Always fun to see how product A stacks up against product B; no matter what the circumstances.

Gooshin · 02-27-2008, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by SouthShoreRob

No offense, but in 2008, who's still using dial-up, lol?

Thanks for the side by side comparison shots. Always fun to see how product A stacks up against product B; no matter what the circumstances.

my mom has dial up in russia...

khardur · 02-27-2008, 01:36 PM

Even though I'm not planning on getting this camera (this year at least) - I have to say that just looking at the ISO1600 images, wow. The Canon has what you think of as noise - different color speckles showing up. The K20D noise looks more like grain than noise - specifically looking at the black area around the "Pop Up Shade" text on top, and the shadow areas to the left of the canned air.

Thanks for making me drool Chris - though if overtime keeps up the way it has been, I might save enough for it in a few weeks!

Fl_Gulfer · 02-27-2008, 03:00 PM

I still want to know which camera posted the most accurate colors?

codiac2600 · 02-27-2008, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer

I still want to know which camera posted the most accurate colors?

I have no way of measuring it besides looking at my laptop monitor. I would say none of them were that accurate, but the K20D was the closest to what the actual item looked like if I held it up to the screen. It's a personal opinion plus the K20D was on bright mode which boosts the color channels a bit.

02-27-2008, 01:59 AM	#17
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	I processed the 3200 ISO image ... it looks like the light source was flourescent as I had to tweak the red channel a bit for hue and saturation. Maybe that is why the 40D images have the red shift. Here is the K20D 3200 ISO -> Noiseware Pro - Resize 50% - Resize 50% - Hue and Saturation - Smart Sharpening .5 50% This should give a good idea of what a print should look like. I like it! Thank you Chris for the images! By the way, was the lighting fluorescent? Last edited by Rickster; 02-27-2008 at 02:23 AM.

02-27-2008, 09:37 AM	#24
TDN Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Gallery Posts: 96	Originally posted by svenphoto well, I am actually impressed.....by the camera i was not hoping for to be impressed by. The last pics i saw on a japanese or korean review site where absolutly in favour of the k20d, the 40d being less detailed or sharp, (less mpix..i guess). noisewise the k20 was only second after the d3, so better than the d300, and 40d. Now what i see and interprid as (pls. correct me if i am wrong) the k20d being more noisy and less colour accurate. reds seem fine, but what about the yellows on the left of the pic, and the wood colour tone. somehow it doesnt look like wb, but i could be wrong... After handling the d300 last weekend at a studioshoot in not too bright lights, i was so impressed by it ,and had so much trouble handling my k10d da* 50-135 ,couse it hunted for focus all the time, i just coudn't keep up with the model, with the d300 (wich is not mine) i could! I was the only pentax user at the workshop shoot, and proud, but i was not so sure why anymore. I was hoping for a upgrade, but i guess i might have to sit it out and wait for the next pentax. This is really the first time since i follow the intro of the k20d that i begin to feel a bit disappointed with the pentax system. Can somebody please bring back my pentax proudness,and hope?! thanks in advance Nikon D300: € 1575.00 Pentax K10D: € 615.00 Pentax K20D: € 995.00 For almost €1000 difference with the K10D, the D300 better be better... The fact that the 2 are even being compared is a compliment to Pentax I have no doubt the K20D will be able to hold its ground next to the big guns. Tom Last edited by TDN; 02-27-2008 at 09:44 AM.

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02-27-2008, 01:25 AM	#16
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	In the images I posted above the orientation is ... K20D - D40 K20D - D40 D40 - K20D In each case the K20D out performs the D40 IMHO. I am very impressed with the K20D's noise performance and will be adding this tool to my kit as funds allow.

02-27-2008, 02:33 AM	#18
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	Originally posted by Rickster 800 1600 3200 Which images above have the least noise and highest detail? They are focused differently - you can't compare them.

02-27-2008, 03:03 AM	#19
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	Originally posted by jaad75 They are focused differently - you can't compare them. Excuse me? Just what does focus have to do with noise? As far the detail goes, in all 6 images the mirror box appears to be well within the DOF. Last edited by Rickster; 02-27-2008 at 03:08 AM.

02-27-2008, 04:50 AM	#20
jaad75 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cracow Posts: 457	I was takling about details - focus point was different, so even if the mirror box was within DOF, Canon would have less detail. The problem with K20D image is different WB - the blue channel is working much harder, so I don't think you can compare noise either... Overally, I think those samples are very poor if we are talking about fair comparison.

02-27-2008, 08:37 AM	#21
little laker Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,697	I find the Pentax looks like the nicer High ISO picture, but I'm not surprised. I also feel that the real test is the actual print quality, on poster sized paper of course. But I would think that the Pentax would win here as well

02-27-2008, 08:46 AM	#22
Rickster Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: SE Idaho - Rocky Mtns Photos: Gallery Posts: 580	Originally posted by jaad75 I was takling about details - focus point was different, so even if the mirror box was within DOF, Canon would have less detail. The problem with K20D image is different WB - the blue channel is working much harder, so I don't think you can compare noise either... Overally, I think those samples are very poor if we are talking about fair comparison. I think prints from both cameras will be excellent with an edge to the K20D for resolution. They are both excellent cameras. By the way, I'm not a Pentax fanboy. I've shot with Pentax, Nikon, Canon, Bronica and Hasselblad over my 35 year career in photography. Last edited by Rickster; 02-27-2008 at 09:19 AM.

02-27-2008, 09:00 AM	#23
ankit Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 140	I think what this test (and the one with A700) really shows is that there is very little separating these cameras, and the difference is marginal and requires pixel peeping. What is more important is the how the camera feels in your hand, the user interface, the speed/responsiveness, the AF accuracy, and the lenses.

02-27-2008, 10:06 AM	#25
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	this is what i'm seeing: more noise in the K20D, but much better detail, and its better to take something out (noise reduction post processing with loss of detail) vs not having any detail to work with at all.

02-27-2008, 10:53 AM	#26
SouthShoreRob Guest	No offense, but in 2008, who's still using dial-up, lol? Thanks for the side by side comparison shots. Always fun to see how product A stacks up against product B; no matter what the circumstances.

02-27-2008, 10:56 AM	#27
Gooshin Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Toronto, the one in Canada. Posts: 5,610	Originally posted by SouthShoreRob No offense, but in 2008, who's still using dial-up, lol? Thanks for the side by side comparison shots. Always fun to see how product A stacks up against product B; no matter what the circumstances. my mom has dial up in russia...

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02-27-2008, 01:36 PM	#28
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	Even though I'm not planning on getting this camera (this year at least) - I have to say that just looking at the ISO1600 images, wow. The Canon has what you think of as noise - different color speckles showing up. The K20D noise looks more like grain than noise - specifically looking at the black area around the "Pop Up Shade" text on top, and the shadow areas to the left of the canned air. Thanks for making me drool Chris - though if overtime keeps up the way it has been, I might save enough for it in a few weeks!

02-27-2008, 03:00 PM	#29
Fl_Gulfer Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Florida Gulfer Photos: Albums Posts: 3,054	I still want to know which camera posted the most accurate colors?

02-27-2008, 03:01 PM	#30
codiac2600 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 2,027 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fl_Gulfer I still want to know which camera posted the most accurate colors? I have no way of measuring it besides looking at my laptop monitor. I would say none of them were that accurate, but the K20D was the closest to what the actual item looked like if I held it up to the screen. It's a personal opinion plus the K20D was on bright mode which boosts the color channels a bit.