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03-28-2013, 10:40 AM - 1 Like   #451
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As someone who has been using the Pentax brand since 1975, I can't find much fault in what Uluru said. When Canon launched their full trottle marketing with the AE-1 (and it still goes on today), all the other companies were slow to catch up, but Pentax in particular seemed to lag behind, counting on word of mouth for the most part. Most of the others made adjustments (Minolta, Nikon, Olympus) by going more mainstream in their media marketing (People magazine, Sports Illustrated, Time, Newsweek, etc). You would occasionally see TV ads with Pentax (remember one with former US senator Bob Dole) but their heart wasn't really into it. They would sometimes try to be clever by making deals with some Hollywood studios for product insertions, such as the movie Stakeout where a Pentax LX was used as a surveillance camera. Pentax like others would still advertize in photo magazines, but even that seems to have dipped in recent years

As the years have gone on, and the marketing has evolved, Pentax has simply not kept up, and it almost seems by design (I don't really think that). I wish I had a nickel every time I go on a shoot somewhere, either on assignment or for my own, where someone will come up to me and ask what I have. Sometime a Canon or Nikon user will come and say "Pentax? I didn't know they still existed!" (I really want to bitch slap them, LOL). The good thing is that the cameras have been excellent, ingenious really, but if you don't work hard too get the word out, not many people are going to know. There is where I hope Ricoh can make a real difference and not only boost the brand, but the star quality. If they can get back to reaching enthusiasts, hitting the photo mags with new advertizing, and be a lot more aggressive with their social media approach (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube), and most of all, listen to us more, then Pentax's future will stabilize.

I'm a proud passionate Pentax photographer, and I expect to be for a long time. Time for Pentax to make a return on that emotional investment.

Here's a suggestion:

Pentax.
Dare to be different.

03-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #452
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QuoteOriginally posted by LXNights Quote
... where someone will come up to me and ask what I have...
Yes

Sometimes I even forget things that make Pentax somewhat special. Recently I was asked mutliple times if I have Bridge/Mirrorless camera because my camera (with limiteds) would look so small and you could not hear any shutter noise

But stuff like that is not in ads. There should be a 4s campaign
Pentax - smaller, sturdy, silent ... just special!
03-28-2013, 11:45 AM   #453
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New Pentax camera coming next week, well new to us anyways. My wife dropped her K10D in Havana and the autofocus does not so this morning she ordered a K5 for a decent price. I suspect she will get years of use and great images from it. The rumours are interesting to follow however I for one do not immediately require a camera more capable than what is currently on the market.

I have never experienced negative responses to my shooting Pentax nor do I notice either more or less attention than when I used the D200 when it was still a current model. Do get asked when I am shooting the Hasselblad or the large format but not Pentax. Perhaps I just look uninteresting to them
03-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #454
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K-mount will NOT go away .... but .....

For a user who was dead-set against the use of a K-mount adapter last year I could see myself using one if it had contacts and AF capability with some new mount. I could see myself using one if it gave me the ability to use K and M lenses on a FF with a new mount.

I say this because, after using the K>Q adapter on my Q - using an adapter isn't the kluge I had imagined it to be.

Here's my little prediction:

Pentax will continue to compete effectively in the APSc space - the high volume part of the market right now - with the native K-mount and the existing DA lens line. Pentax will continue to develop sophisitcated small cameras and lenses of pancake and limited quality and consumer quality in K-mount.

Ricoh will be the FF badge, whether it be MILC, Mountor or mirrored dSLR with a new mount optimized for whatever FF needs PRI has.

Pentax Ricoh will differentiate the brand to their competitive advantage in that way, responding to the category segmentation barriers to entry Canon and Nikon have built. So Pentax will have 3 mounts and Ricoh will have the fourth. Pentax can remain backward compatible - but Ricoh needn't.

It actually is a pretty intriguing and ingenious strategy.


Last edited by monochrome; 03-28-2013 at 01:59 PM.
03-28-2013, 01:50 PM   #455
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I find that doubtful; Pentax is the stronger brand. It would be strange to have Q, APS-C and 645D as Pentax, and the FF - right in the middle - as Ricoh. It would also create an unneeded separation, they will have to explain that the Ricoh's FF K-mount is the same as Pentax'.
Maybe Ricoh will be used for niche products, I mean besides the GXR? For example, a monochrome mountor (since there's already a thread about that).
03-28-2013, 01:55 PM   #456
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax Ricoh will differentiate the brand to their competitive advantage in that way, responding to the category segmentation barriers to entry Canon and Nikon have built. So Pentax will ahve 3 mounts and Ricoh will have the fourth.

It actually is a pretty intriguing and ingenious strategy.
In my opinion it would be complete marketing mess.

Pentax and Ricoh will have no benefit in intriguing the few specialists having heard about them, in carrying stupid at this scale - because unreadable - "label differenciation".
03-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #457
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QuoteOriginally posted by LXNights Quote
As someone who has been using the Pentax brand since 1975, I can't find much fault in what Uluru said. When Canon launched their full trottle marketing with the AE-1 (and it still goes on today), all the other companies were slow to catch up, but Pentax in particular seemed to lag behind, counting on word of mouth for the most part. .
This is not true. Pentax was about level with Canon and released the ME and the MX in 1976. The ME and the AE-1 competed on a montly basis of being the worlds most sold SLR. Pentax had sold 10 000 000 SLR by 1981; more than anyone else. Nikon was slow torespond though. They didn't respond to the ME/AE-1 until 1979. Nikon was then a very conservative company lagging 2-3 years behind the competition.
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #458
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
It would also create an unneeded separation, they will have to explain that the Ricoh's FF K-mount is the same as Pentax'.
Actually, no, they won't have to make that explanation because Ricoh's FF mount won't be K-mount - it will be some new Ricoh FF mount.

03-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #459
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Uluru, I cannot understand how someone holding your opinions stays with Pentax.
The opinion is not either/or. It's not B/W.
But we are talking about a paradox here, which is hard to crack, because its solution lies solely on Pentax side. Users provide them thoughts ideas and emotions, and they need to respond to them.

For example, from the recent interviews, their "excuse" for delaying an FF commitment is the fact that they don't want to compete with Canon and Nikon directly, or, they want to make a camera that is "different" than other offers.

Now, how long THAT takes? Until others deliver their new and different cameras to cover as much of the FF market as possible, so Pentax will postpone their solution then again, make extra improvements, and when they are finally ready for the second time, Sony, Canon or Nikon will launch a new, a bit different and also more evolved FF again ...

Got it? Under such a proposition, they will never deliver anything.

Thus, the answer we receive is either a lie, or a lack of better thought. Because we have a living proof that any positive commitment and improvement can be rewarded, and is only possible with an actual camera, actually launched. The K-5IIs of today is the result of evolution of sophistication and differentiation that came through its userbase, and there is no other way.

If a manufacturer wants to be too different from scratch, toss around with some dubious ideas made in isolation from its userbase, they may as well alienate and split their userbase. That has happened to the K-01, and that is why they are getting rid of it at ridiculously low prices now. It would be better for Pentax to introduce a camera based on proven ideas and concepts first, and then allow their userbase to define its exact course of differentiation and uniqueness. I pray MX-1 is the result of it.

PS. The reason I stay with Pentax is because all other manufacturers cannot satisfy my ideas of what makes photography interesting. I like quality, small prime lenses, and I like the ergonomics of K7/K5 class Pentax cameras. Even if they declare bankrupcy tomorrow, I'd secure a few K5II bodies and prime lenses, to use them in the future.

Last edited by Uluru; 03-28-2013 at 02:24 PM.
03-28-2013, 02:13 PM   #460
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monochrome: In other words, they will have to launch another system just to be able to name it Ricoh
We'll see.
03-28-2013, 02:30 PM   #461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
monochrome: In other words, they will have to launch another system just to be able to name it Ricoh
We'll see.
They don't "abandon" K-mount - they just stop (or dramtically slow) development of new K-mount products. They focus their efforts on uR-mount for mirrorless and FF, brand it Ricoh to differentiate it from Pentax K-mount and avoid antogonsizing what user base they do have, make a functional legacy K-mount adapter for the uR-mount (which I would actually use) and invest the bulk of theri development dollars there. God help them if they don't market, though.

Don't forget the big volume is still APSc at this time. There is no logical reason to abandon a working model in that mount, but there is every reason in the world to want to be first-mover in mirrorless FF.

My speculation is a good specualtion because no one is happy.
03-28-2013, 02:49 PM   #462
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
....

If a manufacturer wants to be too different from scratch, toss around with some dubious ideas made in isolation from its userbase, they may as well alienate and split their userbase. That has happened to the K-01, and that is why they are getting rid of it at ridiculously low prices now. It would be better for Pentax to introduce a camera based on proven ideas and concepts first, and then allow their userbase to define its exact course of differentiation and uniqueness. I pray MX-1 is the result of it.

PS. The reason I stay with Pentax is because all other manufacturers cannot satisfy my ideas of what makes photography interesting. I like quality, small prime lenses, and I like the ergonomics of K7/K5 class Pentax cameras. Even if they declare bankrupcy tomorrow, I'd secure a few K5II bodies and prime lenses, to use them in the future.
I see it differently and it's because I view the K-01 differently. The K-01 was not an exercise in doing anything new or different from a functional camera design standpoint. In fact, it was almost a retro product once you look past the outer shell. The K-01 is simply a DSLR with the mirror, pentaprism, and PDAF module removed. No other camera manufacturer attempted such a basic and conservative design with a MILC. Pentax compensated by making the shell "radical" but serious photographers are all about the technology and not so much about the shell.

If Pentax wants to differentiate itself in the enthusiast, advanced amateur, and semi-pro segment, it needs to do it from the inside out and not the outside in.
03-28-2013, 02:50 PM   #463
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This now makes me question all of your *other* opinions, monochrome.
03-28-2013, 02:56 PM   #464
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5 new Pentax DSLRs announced!!!

Well Pentax announced 5 new colors for the K-30 :-)

Never Take a Rain Check / #PENTAXColors Your DSLR color dreams have come true!
03-28-2013, 02:58 PM   #465
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
For a user who was dead-set against the use of a K-mount adapter last year I could see myself using one if it had contacts and AF capability with some new mount. I could see myself using one if it gave me the ability to use K and M lenses on a FF with a new mount.

I say this because, after using the K>Q adapter on my Q - using an adapter isn't the kluge I had imagined it to be.

Here's my little prediction:

Pentax will continue to compete effectively in the APSc space - the high volume part of the market right now - with the native K-mount and the existing DA lens line. Pentax will continue to develop sophisitcated small cameras and lenses of pancake and limited quality and consumer quality in K-mount.

Ricoh will be the FF badge, whether it be MILC, Mountor or mirrored dSLR with a new mount optimized for whatever FF needs PRI has.

Pentax Ricoh will differentiate the brand to their competitive advantage in that way, responding to the category segmentation barriers to entry Canon and Nikon have built. So Pentax will have 3 mounts and Ricoh will have the fourth. Pentax can remain backward compatible - but Ricoh needn't.

It actually is a pretty intriguing and ingenious strategy.
So this *strategy* that YOU have come up with unilaterally is both "ingenious" and "intriguing" is it? Please tell me how you can find YOUR OWN STRATEGY "intriguing" because that escapes me? Do you have multiple personalities that are unknown to each other?
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