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04-03-2013, 01:50 PM   #556
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If it's a supposition and not something certain, please say so.
A full frame would easily be 2 times more expensive than a K-5 II, besides Canon and Nikon no longer offers 28-85 f/3.5-5.6-like lenses (the closest being a $750 24-85 3.5-4.5).

04-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #557
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Let us take another example: 645D. Its launch price was four to five times higher than the one people can expect for the rumoured 24x36 Pentax camera.

What was the lens simultaneously announced, the first of the modern, digital 645 era? A 55mm f/2.8, which is equivalent, on Pentax 645D, to a 43mm f/2.1 on a 24x36 camera, hence the successor to the 50mm f/2 "kit lens" of the film era.

High end, isn't it?
04-03-2013, 02:33 PM   #558
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If it's a supposition and not something certain, please say so.
(...)
Your question is straightforward and logical but, unfortunately, cannot be answered in a satisfactory manner.

If I were speculating, I would definitely say so.

If I were holding insider information, I would be bound by non-disclosure provisions of some sort and could not publish what I would be happening to know whilst presenting it as facts. All I could be able to do would be to provide some specific, albeit not completely accurate, pieces of information to help my readers get a whiff of the situation, whilst pretending those are speculation.

I am therefore telling you that the above is mere speculation on my part and letting you make your own judgement.
04-03-2013, 02:43 PM   #559
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Do not dream too much for the first two lenses launched together with the rumoured 24x36 Pentax will be a 28-85mm f/3.5-5.6 and a 75-300mm f/4-5.6.

Not very complicated to develop and produce nor very appealing I am afraid, but those kit zooms will represent the bulk of sales.
QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Your question is straightforward and logical but, unfortunately, cannot be answered in a satisfactory manner.

If I were speculating, I would definitely say so.

If I were holding insider information, I would be bound by non-disclosure provisions of some sort and could not publish what I would be happening to know whilst presenting it as facts. All I could be able to do would be to provide some specific, albeit not completely accurate, pieces of information to help my readers get a whiff of the situation, whilst pretending those are speculation.

I am therefore telling you that the above is mere speculation on my part and letting you make your own judgement.
I wonder how, specualting of course, Pentax expects to sell a bundle of consumer zooms to the adoring soccer mom masses without the throngs of camera store comissionmen extolling their virtues.

04-03-2013, 03:03 PM   #560
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Let us take another example: 645D. Its launch price was four to five times higher than the one people can expect for the rumoured 24x36 Pentax camera.

What was the lens simultaneously announced, the first of the modern, digital 645 era? A 55mm f/2.8, which is equivalent, on Pentax 645D, to a 43mm f/2.1 on a 24x36 camera, hence the successor to the 50mm f/2 "kit lens" of the film era.

High end, isn't it?
I would not call the D FA645 55mm f/2.8 a 50mm f/2 "kit lens" equivalent; it's a high quality $1200 lens which covers the 645 frame.
There is also quite a jump from 50mm f/2 "kit lenses" to 28-85 f/3.5-5.6 zooms

For a simple speculation, I don't think "will be this and that" is appropriate.

Last edited by Kunzite; 04-03-2013 at 03:20 PM.
04-03-2013, 03:05 PM   #561
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
Some month ago a design for a full frame 70-210 f2.8 zoom was patented by Pentax; apparently the full frame lenses are on the way...
They have patented "tons" of lenses that have never seen the light of day.
Some from history:
K 300/2, K/A 35/1.4, A 20/1.4, 33-39/2.8 (I'm not kidding), FA* 150/2, FA 18/2.8, FA 90/3.5 Macro Limited etc. And this is just the ones I know about and I'm not even well informed!
04-03-2013, 03:11 PM   #562
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
K 300/2, K/A 35/1.4, A 20/1.4, 33-39/2.8 (I'm not kidding), FA* 150/2, FA 18/2.8, FA 90/3.5 Macro Limited etc. And this is just the ones I know about and I'm not even well informed!
many of my dreams are patented then !
04-03-2013, 03:13 PM   #563
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I wonder how, specualting of course, Pentax expects to sell a bundle of consumer zooms to the adoring soccer mom masses without the throngs of camera store comissionmen extolling their virtues.

I think Pentax will sell an FF camera to the Pentax diehards only. Smaller size than the Nikon/Canon counterparts won't make people flock to the Pnetax brand. A 24mp FF DSLR in 2014 will be seen as very unremarkable and I fear if this sensor is indeed the one (and not a 36mp+ sensor) then Pentax is making an FF camera for the sake of it. Particularly if it is bundled with a few rebadged Tokina FF lenses. I can hear the whining staring immediately after its release when Canon have released their 46mp FF camera and Nikon is about to destill the 36mp senor into simpler bodies. Not to mention the whining over the next few years why oh why Pentax never upgrade their FF camera... Mark my words....

BTW I hope the FF Pentax is at least 36mp...

04-03-2013, 03:19 PM   #564
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If you are correct then Nikon and Canon have indeed erected impenetrable barriers to entry against all but the most wealthy and determined competitors - such as Sony
04-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #565
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Pentax have got to start somewhere. Since they don't produce their own sensors, they have to work with what can be made available to them.
Currently, the 24Mp 24x36 Sony sensor is available. If Pentax were to come out with a FF camera in 2013-4, it would probably sport this sensor, which I'm not sure is a stumbling block. The Mp count is chiefly a lower-end consumer rat race. There is a resolution that is practical, and there is a resolution that brings in the 'wow' factor in its potential buyers.

24Mp is a good figure for most high-end work. Prior to this generation's FF sensor, there were 10, 12 and 14Mp FF sensors that did pros well, and can still do so. 36Mp may be the only resolution that would allow DA lenses to produce 16Mp cropped images in the FF camera, and as such make it at least as marketable as the APS-C counterparts, but 24Mp wouldn't be a slouch in what it could to . The discerning photographer would realise that and judge it accordingly.
04-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #566
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@Ash, I don't disagree. But why then would Pentax market it with low-end consumer zooms just because consumers would buy them? Consumers won't buy the Pentax camera anyway. If they're going to build a better 24Mp FF shouldn't they build advanced lenses to go with it?

This is something like Brand Dyslexia.
04-03-2013, 05:47 PM   #567
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
If you are correct then Nikon and Canon have indeed erected impenetrable barriers to entry against all but the most wealthy and determined competitors - such as Sony
The problem is that Sony has flopped in FF...twice...
And really don't think that any companys fortune in the DSLR or digital market in general is going to be decided in the FF field...
Pentax need to bring more people into the brand then offer an FF solution for those who wants it
04-03-2013, 05:53 PM   #568
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Ash, I don't disagree. But why then would Pentax market it with low-end consumer zooms just because consumers would buy them? Consumers won't buy the Pentax camera anyway. If they're going to build a better 24Mp FF shouldn't they build advanced lenses to go with it?

This is something like Brand Dyslexia.
Absolutely. I think an "entry" level Pentax FF camera would be a mistake. A higher end FF model with enough megapixel to make a difference compared to APS without excessive pixelpeeping may not sell more, but make the Pentax system more complete and keep the whining of lack of an (FF) upgrade path at bay a bit longer...
Furthermore an 24mp DSLR not only have to compete with the likes of the D600 and the 6D and the Sony, but also with Pentax own 16mp and coming 24mp APS DSLR's. Whereas a 36+mp version will have more of its own niche particularly if it is very compact.
04-03-2013, 06:21 PM   #569
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
@Ash, I don't disagree. But why then would Pentax market it with low-end consumer zooms just because consumers would buy them? Consumers won't buy the Pentax camera anyway. If they're going to build a better 24Mp FF shouldn't they build advanced lenses to go with it?

This is something like Brand Dyslexia.
I imagine there would be different kits available. Probably a sealed, but somewhat slow zoom what be standard (cheaper) option, with maybe kits with an f2.8 lens or, even a prime available. For folks who already own full frame primes, but who want some sort of zoom just for the off time when they don't want to shoot with primes, this could make sense.
04-03-2013, 06:23 PM   #570
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Absolutely. I think an "entry" level Pentax FF camera would be a mistake. A higher end FF model with enough megapixel to make a difference compared to APS without excessive pixelpeeping may not sell more, but make the Pentax system more complete and keep the whining of lack of an (FF) upgrade path at bay a bit longer...
Furthermore an 24mp DSLR not only have to compete with the likes of the D600 and the 6D and the Sony, but also with Pentax own 16mp and coming 24mp APS DSLR's. Whereas a 36+mp version will have more of its own niche particularly if it is very compact.
The issue with the D600 isn't its sensor though, it is the fact that Nikon has crippled its body in comparison to the D600. I would be very satisfied with a D600 sensor in a Pentax body, just so the shutter speed isn't crippled and there is still sealing, etc.
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