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04-03-2013, 06:29 PM   #571
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
The problem is that Sony has flopped in FF...twice...
And really don't think that any companys fortune in the DSLR or digital market in general is going to be decided in the FF field...
Pentax need to bring more people into the brand then offer an FF solution for those who wants it
Despite being much smaller, Pentax likely has more credibility than Sony with serious photographers. For starters, Pentax actually allow all of the light to pass to the sensor. Revolutionary! I'm not surprised Sony has little traction at the higher end of the DSLR market but I don't necessarily think it means Pentax can't.

04-03-2013, 07:37 PM   #572
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This whole FF thing is silly. Who needs it, anyway? Of all the people who buy DSLRs, how many ACTUALLY need FF compared to APS-C? I mean, for web use, or printouts on that home Epson, APS-C is already overkill. Full frame? For what, 20" x 30" prints? This whole thing is sort of a herd-lust-mentality hustle.

As it stands, Pentax makes very good cameras. They just need to learn marketing.

@monochrome -- re how to sell to the soccer moms -- maybe co-branded with Louis Vuitton? A chic brown leather case covering, with those indecipherable pseudo-astrological gold symbols?
04-03-2013, 08:09 PM   #573
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
This whole FF thing is silly. Who needs it, anyway?
Who needs a camera?
04-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #574
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
24Mp is a good figure for most high-end work. Prior to this generation's FF sensor, there were 10, 12 and 14Mp FF sensors that did pros well, and can still do so. 36Mp may be the only resolution that would allow DA lenses to produce 16Mp cropped images in the FF camera, and as such make it at least as marketable as the APS-C counterparts, but 24Mp wouldn't be a slouch in what it could to .
24MP gives a 10MP APS-C image.

That's fine by me. I love it.

04-03-2013, 08:11 PM   #575
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
@monochrome -- re how to sell to the soccer moms -- maybe co-branded with Louis Vuitton? A chic brown leather case covering, with those indecipherable pseudo-astrological gold symbols?
Pentax needs the Slick Salesman in a suburban Camera store with lighted display cases and countertop store demonstrators. "Well, for action shots of soccer you really need this D7100. They made it just for that - and with great High ISO denoiseing for indoor volleyball games."

(My son's mother-in-law was singing Nikon Hallelujah Easter Sunday until I pulled out my Q. I swear, those were her very words. So she sat down and ordered an 02 kit from Amazon (IIRC) just like that. $300 +/- because I pointed out that she could carry it in her purse on vacation.)
04-03-2013, 08:22 PM   #576
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FF

"This whole FF thing is silly. Who needs it, anyway?"

I expect those that need it are the ones purchasing Nikon and Canon FF cameras!

Tom
04-03-2013, 08:24 PM   #577
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax needs the Slick Salesman in a suburban Camera store with lighted display cases and countertop store demonstrators. "Well, for action shots of soccer you really need this D7100. They made it just for that - and with great High ISO denoiseing for indoor volleyball games."

(My son's mother-in-law was singing Nikon Hallelujah Easter Sunday until I pulled out my Q. I swear, those were her very words. So she sat down and ordered an 02 kit from Amazon (IIRC) just like that. $300 +/- because I pointed out that she could carry it in her purse on vacation.)
Looking at the Still Life Scene compare tool on DPR I'd say that the K-5IIs kills the D7100 for high ISO use and I can't wait to see how a Pentax 24MP APS-C DSLR compares. Hopefully they will make a few major breakthroughs.
04-03-2013, 11:23 PM   #578
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QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
This whole FF thing is silly. Who needs it, anyway? Of all the people who buy DSLRs, how many ACTUALLY need FF compared to APS-C? I mean, for web use, or printouts on that home Epson, APS-C is already overkill. Full frame? For what, 20" x 30" prints? This whole thing is sort of a herd-lust-mentality hustle.
It is irrelevant ir consumer needs it or not. It is important wether consumer wants it.

Also Full Frame is not only about resolution. My current main camera is 12 Megapixel FF. But I am more happy with it's pictures than those made with 16 megapixel APS-C camera.

04-03-2013, 11:33 PM   #579
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@monochrome -- so then the solution could be to sell co-branded large ladies bags, with a K-5IIs inside (no Bayer filter, for better makeup accuracy!) ... those big bags, the ones 'working girls' cart around, but by Vuitton and all the other usual suspects. Maybe the marketing key is to sell the container as well as the camera. Like for guys, a Pentax knock-off of those Pelican cases. Pentax Pro, ooohh!
04-04-2013, 01:27 AM   #580
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The issue with the D600 isn't its sensor though, it is the fact that Nikon has crippled its body in comparison to the D600. I would be very satisfied with a D600 sensor in a Pentax body, just so the shutter speed isn't crippled and there is still sealing, etc.
I shoot very much wide open with my D600 and 1.8 lenses. I was honestly afraid the 1/4000 speed, that people think is a limitation, would be a problem. In reality, its not... In sunny winter days, sure, the shutter speed often go max. But its not a problem... The camera handles it pretty well, sometimes clipping out the most extreme highs. But i can see that exposure in Matrix metering has some leverage at 1/4000. Or, ill just stop down to 2.2 or 2.8 wich is still good enough for subject isolation anyway.

Remember... All those people that have been shooting D700.. Base ISO 200 and 1/8000, no one complains. and that is kinda the same as ISO 100 and 1/4000.

Imho, the difference between shutterspeeds from 1/4000 to 1/8000 is a very exagerated problem that people only see when they stare blindly at rumors and camera specs.

But sure, there are people to wich the 1/8000 are a absolute necesity for their shooting style. I can understand that.
And pentaxians would go berserk if there was a Pentax FF with only 1/4000
04-04-2013, 03:47 AM   #581
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I wouldn't never suggest a Pentax FF camera should be sold with cheap consumer zooms. If it were up to me, I'd just have it sold as body only with options to sell it bundled with one, two or three FA Limited lenses.
04-04-2013, 03:48 AM   #582
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I wouldn't never suggest a Pentax FF camera should be sold with cheap consumer zooms. If it were up to me, I'd just have it sold as body only with options to sell it bundled with one, two or three FA Limited lenses.
+1 like the 645D and the D-FA 55mm f/2.8 ASPH [IF] SDM lens.
04-04-2013, 04:00 AM   #583
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QuoteOriginally posted by the swede Quote
... And pentaxians would go berserk if there was a Pentax FF with only 1/4000
I think that would be putting it mildly ... J
04-04-2013, 04:03 AM   #584
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
Looking at the Still Life Scene compare tool on DPR I'd say that the K-5IIs kills the D7100 for high ISO use and I can't wait to see how a Pentax 24MP APS-C DSLR compares. Hopefully they will make a few major breakthroughs.
QuoteOriginally posted by jon404 Quote
@monochrome -- so then the solution could be to sell co-branded large ladies bags, with a K-5IIs inside (no Bayer filter, for better makeup accuracy!) ... those big bags, the ones 'working girls' cart around, but by Vuitton and all the other usual suspects. Maybe the marketing key is to sell the container as well as the camera. Like for guys, a Pentax knock-off of those Pelican cases. Pentax Pro, ooohh!
Well there weren't any Pentax's in the store. I had to explain what Pentax was, Spotmatic, K1000 etc. My son stepped in and talked about my daughter and the KX doing the college Winter Term in Abiquiu (they've seen the 20x30 prints at our house).

Don't get me wrong - these are really nice people and we (and my son) couldn't be happier - but it can't be sold if it isn't in the store and the potential customer doesn't know it exists to compare to the inferior product. Why on Earth would a company expect its customers to know about DPReview so they can self-sell?
04-04-2013, 06:07 AM   #585
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
They have patented "tons" of lenses that have never seen the light of day.
Some from history:
K 300/2, K/A 35/1.4, A 20/1.4, 33-39/2.8 (I'm not kidding), FA* 150/2, FA 18/2.8, FA 90/3.5 Macro Limited etc. And this is just the ones I know about and I'm not even well informed!
Indeed but a 70-210 seems less "exotic" than the lenses listed above. I qualify them as "exotic" as the focal/aperture is very uncommon.
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