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05-07-2013, 07:12 PM   #811
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
one can see a huge subset of strobists now where once fast glass aficionados used to tread.
that is because these photographers realised that low light often means bad light. sometimes adding some lighting to a scene can improve an image that shallow DOF would probably ruin.

05-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #812
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
that is because these photographers realised that low light often means bad light. sometimes adding some lighting to a scene can improve an image that shallow DOF would probably ruin.
I couldn't agree more. The quality and sufficient intensity of light enhances every scene and subject. This by far is the secret to good photography rather than the ability to shoot at larger apertures or higher ISO.
05-07-2013, 08:27 PM   #813
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The thread name is "New Pentax Cameras 2013".
What were those new cameras in 2013? The MX-1 and the GR (and some small camera, decorated with fleur motifs, forgot its name but is visible nowhere).
I wonder if in these 55 pages of verbiage was even a handful posts about those two new cameras ... but everything posted is related to NON-EXISTING cameras!
05-07-2013, 08:29 PM   #814
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
.... snip .... I wonder if in these 55 pages of verbiage was even a handful posts about those two new cameras ... but everything posted is related to NON-EXISTING cameras!
Well, the year is just barely more than 1/3 over.

05-07-2013, 08:39 PM   #815
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I was told yesterday by a local Pentax rep that they are about to bring out a budget DSLR but that they don't know jack about anything else and have no idea as to what Ricoh's plans are. This guy says that they have a Ricoh rep (of 18 years) working for them who has a decent relationship with the head guys in Japan but even he is not told anything.
05-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #816
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
that is because these photographers realised that low light often means bad light. sometimes adding some lighting to a scene can improve an image that shallow DOF would probably ruin.

And often low light means good light and adding some lighting would ruin the atmosphere. This low light scene might even benefit from a shallow DOF.( or it may not )

There are many types of shooting. None are better than any other. There's room for all.
05-07-2013, 09:15 PM   #817
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Thin or narrow DOF came into vogue because it was realized it is an aesthetic, while not unique to photography, easily come by in photography and accessible to the common shooter.

It all depends on the subject in the frame. The quest for greater DOF was because most shots were of people and it is more desirable that all of the depth of the face and body be in acceptable focus, or of objects, where the same applied, though often on a much larger scale, such as buildings. Few people want a portrait where only part of the face is in focus.

When optics became more refined and acute at 'drawing' lines, it was also realized that glass could be "fast" meaning that with decent film, a shallower DOF (and other refinements like autofocus helping) could make for lower light shooting with near acceptable quality. Up went the shutter speeds. High ISO films coming out also helped a lot here.

The blunt reality is that the shallow DOF aesthetic is often much overused and abused, and high-ISO digital cameras with super-accurate AF have rendered the need for faster glass less compelling, especially when the cost and mass of the optics are factored in. That is why most major manufacturers have ceased widespread design and production of very fast glass. The majority of the market has very little need for the aesthetic and more need for sharpness at about f/4 on up (APS-C) so they can get the whole face in focus and f/11 so the edges of the building are as sharp as you remember.

Also, the need for fast glass diminished once flash systems became automated with camera function and got substantially better. In fact, one can see a huge subset of strobists now where once fast glass aficionados used to tread.
The blunt reality is also that the wide DOF everything sharp from front to back is also overused and abused and in the view of many makes for very sterile flat looking images.


QuoteQuote:
The quest for greater DOF was because most shots were of people and it is more desirable that all of the depth of the face and body be in acceptable focus, or of objects, where the same applied, though often on a much larger scale, such as buildings
Part of the quest for shallow DOFs came about in some way because shots of people can be mroe pleasing to the eye when a shallow DOF is used thus softening distracting elements in the background

Interestingly flash is being used less because of the advent of cameras with a much higher ISO performance ( and coupled with wide apertures if you want the shallower DOF ) means that one doesn't have to kill the mood with a flash.

One of the reasons a shallower DOF is pleasing to the eye for lower light scenes is because the eye itself has a shallow DOF in lower light due to ti's aperture being wider

QuoteQuote:
That is why most major manufacturers have ceased widespread design and production of very fast glass.
Except they haven't have they?
05-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by Smeggypants Quote
There are many types of shooting. None are better than any other. There's room for all.
Indeed there is room for all, and being an owner of a Leica nocilux myself I have quite a few good images taken at f/0.95 - but I have equally good atmospheric images taken strobist style images that would not have been improved in any way by the use of such a fast lens. Using flash whilst maintaining the atmosphere of the environment is difficult to do, but not impossible - most photographers simply give up and fork out for expensive lenses instead of pushing their limits and learning that skill. And don't forget there are lighting effects that you can create with flash that are rarely (or never) seen in the natural world.




There is a saying : masters worry about the light, amateurs worry about equipment.


Last edited by Digitalis; 05-07-2013 at 09:47 PM.
05-07-2013, 11:00 PM - 3 Likes   #819
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Without light there is no photography, so it is the number 1 aspect that matters. An 18-55 kit lens at f/8 can capture a wonderful portrait under the right conditions if the lighting is adequate. There is more to great photography than thin DoF. But fast lenses are naturally more flexible, and the flexibility in lower light is vastly more versatile in the art of photography, but in itself is a poor determinant of excellent results. Great lenses make getting great results both easier and more possible, but the right light is exponentially more vital in getting the right end results.
05-07-2013, 11:38 PM - 1 Like   #820
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
There is a saying : masters worry about the light, amateurs worry about equipment.
That expression sure gets around. A variant [in reverse] to your post I have seen in military circles is: ' Amateurs worry about strategy, pros worry about logistics'. As in: 'not much point in talking about capturing Moscow if you cant manage to feed or clothe your troops'.

Last edited by rawr; 05-07-2013 at 11:44 PM.
05-08-2013, 12:25 AM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
K-30 will be discontinued soon. K-5II will be discontinued close to September.
OK that makes more sense then if the K-30 is soon to be discontinued
05-08-2013, 01:02 AM   #822
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K-3 plus other WG's might be announced in September
05-08-2013, 01:30 AM   #823
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I didn't bother to wait.. Snapped up a crazy good deal on a Red K30 with the DAL 18-55 for ~USD$600 last 2 days. Upgraded from a black Kr that i had been using for nearly 2 years.
Was initially tempted by the K5iiS but decided not to.. Why? Coz my only complain that i have was: 2 wheel-dials, better higher ISO (pretty much useable to me @ ISO 6400).

Doesn't apply to all, but i guess one needs to be focused on why and what are the limiting factor of their current gear and "fix" it. Don't get distracted by the other bell & whistles in the next "better one".. This is the 21st century, electronics are progressing at an average of new products every 6 months. There's ALWAYS a better one 6 months down the road.

Not much thought are really implemented into any given product in this era to ensure that it will "last" for years to come as it was back in the 80's and 90's...
05-08-2013, 01:43 AM - 1 Like   #824
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QuoteOriginally posted by SyncGuy Quote
This is the 21st century, electronics are progressing at an average of new products every 6 months. There's ALWAYS a better one 6 months down the road.
I see you are not that familiar with Pentax yet then? Since the K-5 of 2010, I've only seen slighty tweaked or stripped down re-iterations of it.

Last edited by Clavius; 05-08-2013 at 01:50 AM.
05-08-2013, 02:17 AM   #825
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I see you are not that familiar with Pentax yet then? Since the K-5 of 2010, I've only seen slighty tweaked or stripped down re-iterations of it.
Hahaha.... I am, of coz.... And that's what i mean exactly.. Of coz, my statements are more for those who are waiting for the next better camera or launch/announcement date. Look at the previous models launched recently.. Of coz, don't take into consideration of individuals model specs.

In the past, i believe every new model launched were given some thought to ascertain that it would last between 2-3 years at least? But nowadays, everything's been made to last 6months to a year.. LoL!

Think about crApple.. LoL! Technology's moving way too fast this era... Don't think anyone can keep up at all..
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