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02-20-2013, 05:24 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Hmmn, Sony have just announced the SLT-A58K with the new 20.1 mp sensor mentioned earlier in this thread (or, at least, a new 20.1 mp sensor). They've labelled it "beginner" and looks like its price is more at a K30 level.

Just wondering whether the day of the flagship APS-C DSLR with a price to match north of $1500 or so may be over? From now on with APS-C we could be looking at what used to be called midrange with the flagship sales model of yesteryear shifted up to FF. No idea, of course: just wondering. It could mean that a "K3" in that chart is a K30 on steroids, not a K5 on steroids. It might not be easy for Pentax to issue a top new model for $$$ using the same sensor as one from a competitor costing half or a third as much. In the meantime the K5II stays on as the last blast of the Old School.
During the film era, all models shared the same "sensor". Today, all Canon APS-C models but EOS 1100D share the same sensor too, from 600/650D to 7D.

02-20-2013, 05:35 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
During the film era, all models shared the same "sensor". Today, all Canon APS-C models but EOS 1100D share the same sensor too, from 600/650D to 7D.
Very good point, although we are no longer in the film era. You could be quite right, but if Canon were to release a new-gen 7D or Nikon a new-gen D300s or D7000 the replacements wouldn't contain the same sensors as the old line. Anyway, we'll see. I'm just wondering whether the entry->midrange->flagship model of the past few years still holds true for APS-C and at similar pricing levels. We all assume it does, but ...
02-20-2013, 05:44 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
During the film era, all models shared the same "sensor". Today, all Canon APS-C models but EOS 1100D share the same sensor too, from 600/650D to 7D.
And the sensor manufacturer(s) is attempting the same economies of scale as the analog sensor manufacturer(s) did.

When sensor technology is this good and capital requirements to design and manufacture the next one is such a high hurdle, and the end market is saturated (the steep art of the first-buyers curve is past and the market is primarily replacement) component manufacturers stretch their product runs and product manufacturers write long, large take-or-pay supply contracts at low unit costs.

The product manufacturers then differentiate their products around the same components by adding features and charging premiums for them.

Pentax isn't large enough to take advantage of volume component buys unless they also buy the high volume sensors and do their magic with the data stream (wring more out of the Sony sensor), differentiating their products from their competition rather than within their own product line.
02-20-2013, 05:53 AM   #94
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In the K3 we can also expect a higher write speed using benefit of the new SDXC standard, in order to have better troughput, I hope we'll be able to shoot continuously in raw mode; or may be also dual SD slots as on the D7000 in order to acheave better throughput

02-20-2013, 06:00 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by AMOK Quote
Hey ogl

The top one sure don't look like it has a 3...... just sayin

maybe its K-tv K-3d early april fools magazine joke


Your eyes see better now?

It's K-3/K-3s
02-20-2013, 06:11 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Frugal? Then the issue is being able to sell it (after a while) for a few extra $$? Because otherwise a higher end model announcement will not take money out of your pocket, nor would it affect how your camera performs.
Should Pentax not launch a higher end model just to protect second hand prices on current models? I don't think so.

P.S. Think about how K-3 owners would feel, if Pentax would later launch a FF camera!
Nop, no where I said companies should cater toward used market--that's really spinning my words to the extreme. I take the depreciation pace into account for the final value at which I'm willing to pay for an item. I'm not even sure why it's so hard to understand any more. And you bet if Pentax release FF 3 months after K-3, people will be upset.

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
How does that logic work on the lens roadmap then? And how is the competition able to read the complete technical description from just a name? All they would know is that a new model is coming. You said yourself here, K-3 doesn't have to belong to the K-5 line. In fact, it doesn't even have to belong to the APS-C line.

A camera roadmap has just as many advantages and disadvantages as a lens roadmap.
I think the difference in a camera roadmap vs lens roadmap is that the lenses on the roadmap don't overlap as much as the camera would. So it's not going to affect the sales of those lenses to consumer nearly as much. If they provide a very clear roadmap for camera bodies, then it is too easy for consumers to take advantage of it. Obviously companies want to capitalize on their sales as much as they can, while consumers like to get the best bargains they can. (Now, before anyone else jump the gun saying I'm just contradicting myself. I'm not.)

Last edited by ruggiex; 02-20-2013 at 06:28 AM.
02-20-2013, 06:26 AM   #97
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But if you don't think about selling it (i.e. second price market), why do you care about depreciation pace?
Indeed, some people would be upset; however, they should get over it. Pentax must launch new products, higher end products, and not wait one year at a time just because some people would feel bad about their new camera not being "flagship" anymore.
02-20-2013, 06:44 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But if you don't think about selling it (i.e. second price market), why do you care about depreciation pace?
Indeed, some people would be upset; however, they should get over it. Pentax must launch new products, higher end products, and not wait one year at a time just because some people would feel bad about their new camera not being "flagship" anymore.
Well I don't disagree that Pentax should launch new products. The question here is the timing of it. I feel it's short, you feel it's been long enough. That's pretty much the end of it. I'm not really trying to change anyone's view here so I'm not sure why it became such big deal. Anyway, I think the thread has derailed too much so I'm just going to raise my white flag and not going to reply to anything on this manner any more. Have a good day/evening.

02-20-2013, 06:45 AM   #99
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All of the other non Pentax and Ricoh items add up as completely credible.

Although also "somewhat missing" from the list is Sigma's Merrill full frame which was supposed to come out in December
02-20-2013, 06:53 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruggiex Quote
Well I don't disagree that Pentax should launch new products. The question here is the timing of it. I feel it's short, you feel it's been long enough.
I think we're talking about different lines of products, so the timing is irrelevant.
02-20-2013, 07:06 AM - 1 Like   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruggiex Quote
New model devalues old model. Faster a new one comes faster the old one devalues. Maybe I'm just way more frugal than the most of you, idk.
Unless you plan on selling your current camera every time a new model comes out (which almost by definition makes one a "have to have the latest" person), the only devaluation is from an emotional standpoint in your mind.

BTW, until there's some evidence that goes beyond a reference to a magazine cover, we should consider this K-3 info as highly speculative anyway.

Lastly and as others have mentioned, it was obvious just from the nomenclature alone that the K-5 II and "s" would have a shorter lifespan than normal as Pentax's flagship.
02-20-2013, 07:24 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You're trying to make it sound silly and sarcastic. But it's actually so logical that where I'm from there's actually a law prohibiting this. If I buy something and within three weeks of the sale a newer model or a discount program starts, I still have the right to return my gear for the old value and buy the new model, or the same model with the discount.
Three weeks is nothing like September, 2012 to (whenever the actual replacement for the K5II is announced). The Corvette 427 Stingray will be released March 5th in Geneva. It has been teased on television here since Thanksgiving.

If in fact Pentax lowers the price of the exact same camera three weeks and a day after you purchase it, pursuant to announcing a new camera to replace your model - then sure, you have a case. That's why they don't do that here, especially under MAP pricing schemes (frankly, if you asked, Amazon, B&H or Adorama would rebate you any price change during a brief window). Further, in my example, the Corvette 427 Convertible didn't "depreciate" the value of a Z06 a penny. It is still a Z06 and still does everything a Z06 does.

Except generate the "Ooohhhhh. That's the newest Corvette." looks from the girls and gearheads.

My comment was indeed purposefully silly and sarcastic, though not to demean the poster, who is entitled to his opinion and to spend his money with whichever manufacturer behaves in a way that makes their products a good value in his individual judgement. The intent was to point out through ridiculous exaggeration that in the case of a digital camera life cycle, there can be little expectation of a long replacement / depreciation cycle.

I have a K10D/Grip/3 OEM batteries/ all boxes and papers/7,xxx clicks for sale. Just a month ago the price area here was $325 - $350 for that kit. Now it is $100 less. Should I be upset?

Last edited by monochrome; 02-20-2013 at 09:25 AM.
02-20-2013, 09:09 AM - 5 Likes   #103
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It would be nice if everyone has to attach a freshly taken picture before each posting. Soon everyone is happy again taking good photos then chasing and arguing new toys.
02-20-2013, 09:39 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by ruggiex Quote
It's easy to say consumer should know better. But in the end of the day if the consumer gets burnt once, they will start looking else where. It's not exactly a good business strategy. If I were to upgrade my K5 to K5IIs because of removal of AA filter and more precise AF(that qualify as suiting my needs), but it's not worth the money for that upgrade if I knew K3 was coming out just 6 months down the road and probably will be better in many ways.
We knew it and thats why I didn't buy the K5II.
Theres always something new down the road...
02-20-2013, 09:57 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote

Your eyes see better now?

It's K-3/K-3s
Well you can how I missread it. got pic from canonrumours........

K-3V K-3Z....
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