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05-19-2013, 06:00 AM   #1066
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Maybe Aristophane doesn't know about Leica and other niche players such as Fuji X system....
Moreover, I would advise that i takes some marketing course... could help, never know.


Last edited by Zygonyx; 05-19-2013 at 12:26 PM.
05-19-2013, 08:02 AM   #1067
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
...and the solution in a recession is to sell more expensive cameras and lenses?
Cameras, yes. Lenses...?

QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are plenty of 35mm system lenses that cost more than medium format lenses.
Which ones?
05-19-2013, 08:53 AM   #1068
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
...and the solution in a recession is to sell more expensive cameras and lenses?
I'm sure the top of the line FF cameras and lenses are higer margin products. But theres no reason to assume the cheaper FF bodies are. The basis for the viability of Nikon and Canons DSLR systems are the huge volumes of smaller snesor DSLR sales. FF is simply not large enough segment to keep these companies floating or fill their production capacity. You also seem to have a wrong idea about pricing as if it is based on "what we can get away with principle". It isn't.
Of course a camera with smaller sensor are cheaper than the same body with larger one but this doesn't mean that no APS camera can't be as expensive as an FF one in order to sell. The same goes for lenses. There are plenty of 35mm system lenses that cost more than medium format lenses. And so what?
That might be true for Pentax should they go with a FF offering but don't Canon and Nikon sell at least as many FF cameras as Pentax sells DSLRs?
05-19-2013, 09:17 AM   #1069
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
That might be true for Pentax should they go with a FF offering but don't Canon and Nikon sell at least as many FF cameras as Pentax sells DSLRs?
In the US, far more. At one point there were 10 or so 'flavors' of FF in the Amazon-sales charts above the first Pentax entry.

Actually, the last time I checked, a couple of months ago, the highest Pentax was #50 (I think it was the K-5), and at #51... was the full-frame Pentax K1000.

05-19-2013, 09:45 AM   #1070
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
In the US, far more. At one point there were 10 or so 'flavors' of FF in the Amazon-sales charts above the first Pentax entry.

Actually, the last time I checked, a couple of months ago, the highest Pentax was #50 (I think it was the K-5), and at #51... was the full-frame Pentax K1000.
Wow, a full frame Pentax K1000 w/ 50mm Pentax SMC A lens for $36.99 w/ free shipping !
Pentax K1000 SLR Camera with 50mm Lens and Strap | eBay
05-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #1071
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
...
Which ones?
Leica, Nikon, compared to 645 Pentax for example : you can find at least a few examples.
05-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #1072
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Leica, Nikon, compared to 645 Pentax for example : you can find at least a few examples.
I was thinking about Leica; but are any Leica 35mm lenses less expensive than the Leica MF lenses?
Are any Nikon lenses more expensive than 645 lenses with the same field of view?
05-19-2013, 02:27 PM   #1073
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Yes 2x

Leica S lenses :
Leica Store Berlin: S-Objektive : Produktliste
Leica M lenses :
Leica Store Berlin: M-Objektive : Produktliste

[no exact fov correspondance but...]
Nikon 70-200mm ED f/2.8 for 35mm :
Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Lens 2185 B&H Photo

Pentax 80-160mm f/4.5 for 645 :
The H: Open Source, Security and Development

05-19-2013, 04:58 PM   #1074
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
You also seem to have a wrong idea about pricing as if it is based on "what we can get away with principle". It isn't.
Yes. It is. Always has been. If there are consumers willing to pay for it, then you do "get away wit it" as a supplier.

If the consumer does not...then you have unsold stock and must discount to move inventory, even if at a loss.

Throughout the history of camera manufacture and sales, cheaper bodies have ALWAYS been followed by issues of less expensive systems and accessories and lenses.
05-19-2013, 06:13 PM   #1075
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
There are plenty of 35mm system lenses that cost more than medium format lenses.
QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Which ones?
Okay - the Hasselblad 80mm f/2.8 HC - a normal lens in the hasselblad H system costs around $2,595

off the top of my head I can think of a few 50mm 'normal' lenses that cost considerably more than that:

The Leica noctilux 50mm f/0.95 ASPH - $11,000
The Leica APO-Summicron 50mm f/2 ASPH -$7,180
The Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 ASPH - this lens cost me around $7,000 second hand.

I will also mention the Carl Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 costs $2399 - which is really a cosina product in drag, and it costs almost as much as a basic medium format prime lens.

Last edited by Digitalis; 05-19-2013 at 06:24 PM.
05-19-2013, 07:00 PM   #1076
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Wow, a full frame Pentax K1000 w/ 50mm Pentax SMC A lens for $36.99 w/ free shipping !
Pentax K1000 SLR Camera with 50mm Lens and Strap | eBay
That is an excellent deal. You can't touch one here in the Portland area for under $85.


Steve
05-19-2013, 07:02 PM   #1077
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Now...back on topic...

Pentax is DOOMED...


Steve


(Now doesn't that feel better?)
05-19-2013, 08:44 PM   #1078
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Okay - the Hasselblad 80mm f/2.8 HC - a normal lens in the hasselblad H system costs around $2,595

off the top of my head I can think of a few 50mm 'normal' lenses that cost considerably more than that:

The Leica noctilux 50mm f/0.95 ASPH - $11,000
The Leica APO-Summicron 50mm f/2 ASPH -$7,180
The Noct-Nikkor 58mm f/1.2 ASPH - this lens cost me around $7,000 second hand.

I will also mention the Carl Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 costs $2399 - which is really a cosina product in drag, and it costs almost as much as a basic medium format prime lens.
Thanks, but that still doesn't sound like 'plenty' to me. That sounds like a few very rare oddballs.
05-19-2013, 08:46 PM   #1079
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
[no exact fov correspondance but...]
Nikon 70-200mm ED f/2.8 for 35mm :
Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Lens 2185 B&H Photo

Pentax 80-160mm f/4.5 for 645 :
The H: Open Source, Security and Development
I think that's a good example for the Pentax but it's really more of a normal lens on the 645 system it was designed for... so comparison should be to the 24-70 f/2.8, which is still slower than the Pentax. Of course the high-iso of the Nikon will render that moot.
06-03-2013, 04:09 AM   #1080
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Back to 2013 roadmap, I remember this so called K3 was expected last April, do we have more color about what this year should bring, bodies and glass wise?
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