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06-14-2013, 07:42 AM   #1261
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What if you had your files developed and they came back on a yellow card?

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I think the market is fracturing between those who are willing to PC edit and those who see the digital darkroom as a waste of time. I believe the former is a stalled market and for those who want the occasional super-edit for a big print, etc. web services will fill the occasional need.
I have written before that I lament the loss of skills when analog print labs and the prefessional print technicians disappeared over the last two decades. I disagree with the notion that using my own computer to develop my own images is a time and money saver; that digital is an advance over analog.

I absolutely despise having to sit down and develop my own images. I want to drop off a card at a digital lab, come back in a few days and have the same card loaded with Photoshop-style images developed by someone who knows what he is doing. I want thumbnails like a contact sheet. I want to choose two or three images (or none) to print and keep the rest for web viewing.

I think it would be suitably ironic if my developed files were returned to me on a bright yellow card with a red font.

I enjoy the taking.
I enjoy the seeing.
I dislike the doing of digital developing to turn something.dnginto something.jpg so much that sometimes I don't even do it. But I keep the .dng files in case I change my mind later and I choose not to shoot in-camera .jpg.

I believe there is a market for custom digital development and printing - and that we will eventually come full-circle.

06-14-2013, 07:53 AM   #1262
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote

Still, opportunities down the line. Imagine that with your Pentax camera comes a couple of phone/tablet apps and a starter subscription to Flickr instead of today's wonky PC software, and by that time a Flickr sub also buys you a suite of Flickr browser-based RAW-editing tools run off the cloud. Indeed if done right, the camera-makers would be paid to include such software rather than, as at present, carry it as a cost. Maybe it's already happening, perhaps with Google stuff.

I'm conflicted about tablets. I do wonder whether the consumption model on which they are based is here to stay or whether there will be a backlash in favour of devices powerful enough to create content too - a blend of tablet and laptop. A few early experiments are out there like the Lenovo Yoga line.
The future for dedicated cameras (not smartphone/tablet) in order of importance to the emerging market:

0) Price
1) Sensor size
2) Sensor quality
3) Connectivity
4) Form factor
5) In camera PP
6) Build quality
7) Warranty
8) Optics
9) Brand
10) Price (again)

Most of the world and emerging markets do not and will not likely use PC's for processing, editing, and sharing. The camera will be the tablet for content creation, and the tablet will be the pass-through device to ultimate online sharing. But it is certain that tablets will gradually supplant PC's as the dominant post-processing editor platform. I did not say replace; I said supplant and dominant.

Yes, I realize that sensor size and quality (and optics) can all affect IQ. But consumers may have choose a certain sensor output (16 vs 24) based on the carrying capacity (storage + processing power) of their tablet. So people will look to a 16MP sensor for the smaller file size, and they'll look for the best quality sensor, especially ISO performance. Right now it's Sony's world, but others are knocking. Bandwidth and processing concerns may trump on-board bulk storage as a criteria. 24MP's is a LARGE file.
06-14-2013, 07:57 AM   #1263
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I want to drop off a card at a digital lab, come back in a few days and have the same card loaded with Photoshop-style images developed by someone who knows what he is doing.
App algorithms are emerging to automate the process substantially. They will be firmware in cameras. Your 3" LCD on the camera can't quite display that? No problem. Over to your 10" table wirelessly for a look-see. Want more bokeh? Done. Smoother gradation to OOF? Done.

It will be like matrix metering for output. And that's one reason why Adobe pulled their recent Photoshop stunt.
06-14-2013, 08:42 AM   #1264
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I have written before that I lament the loss of skills when analog print labs and the prefessional print technicians disappeared over the last two decades. I disagree with the notion that using my own computer to develop my own images is a time and money saver; that digital is an advance over analog.

I absolutely despise having to sit down and develop my own images. I want to drop off a card at a digital lab, come back in a few days and have the same card loaded with Photoshop-style images developed by someone who knows what he is doing. I want thumbnails like a contact sheet. I want to choose two or three images (or none) to print and keep the rest for web viewing.

I think it would be suitably ironic if my developed files were returned to me on a bright yellow card with a red font.

I enjoy the taking.
I enjoy the seeing.
I dislike the doing of digital developing to turn something.dnginto something.jpg so much that sometimes I don't even do it. But I keep the .dng files in case I change my mind later and I choose not to shoot in-camera .jpg.

I believe there is a market for custom digital development and printing - and that we will eventually come full-circle.
There are lots of places that will develop your photos in lightroom and send you the catalog. Obviously you pay for such a service, but when my wife shoots a wedding, she will often use something like that to save time.

06-14-2013, 08:46 AM   #1265
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would be a nice idea on a wedding.

one person shooting and another one is evaluating the pics.

if an important shot is missing, just redo it 20 mins later, when the wedding is still going in.

better then having lost that one shot forever
06-14-2013, 09:26 AM   #1266
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
There are lots of places that will develop your photos in lightroom and send you the catalog. Obviously you pay for such a service, but when my wife shoots a wedding, she will often use something like that to save time.
That's good to know because if you ever heard me cuss at Photoshop, you'd be REALLY entertained to hear me cuss at the unfathomable Lightroom interface. Thankfully my wife's father was a sailor.

(Where the eff are the files ......)
06-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #1267
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That's good to know because if you ever heard me cuss at Photoshop, you'd be REALLY entertained to hear me cuss at the unfathomable Lightroom interface. Thankfully my wife's father was a sailor.

(Where the eff are the files ......)
The one my wife uses is called Photographer's Edit.
06-14-2013, 09:42 AM   #1268
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
+ 8 other cameras, and 2 more lenses.
Think at least half of them is very interesting and show real progress. (MX-1, GR, Q7, K-50 and K-500).
For example? What kind of progress do you see?
You never heard about 1/1.7" or 16 MP APS-C sensor?

06-14-2013, 09:59 AM   #1269
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
For example? What kind of progress do you see?
You never heard about 1/1.7" or 16 MP APS-C sensor?
Cameras is more then the sensor.

Pentax MX-1 is the first enthusiast P&S from Pentax in many years.
Pentax K-500 is the first entry level DSLR with 100% pentaprism and dual wheel control.
Pentax K-50 is making weather sealed DSLR even cheaper than before.
Ricoh GR is their first APS-C sensor compact, and with lower price than competition.
1/1.7" sensor in Q7 is a progress coming from 1/2.3" sensor in Q10.
06-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #1270
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
For example? What kind of progress do you see?
You never heard about 1/1.7" or 16 MP APS-C sensor?
Regarding APS-C sensors, I don't think there has been much progress since the Sony 16 MP sensor used in the K-5. From images I've seen, I'd rather have it than the Sony 24 MP sensor. Seems the Toshiba is some better but not the jump in IQ that the Sony 16 MP brought.

In fact I think the main reason We got K-5 II last year instead of K-3 is that there wasn't a suitable sensor available to Pentax.

Which sensor do you think Pentax should have used in the K-50?
06-14-2013, 10:45 AM   #1271
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Cameras is more then the sensor.

Pentax MX-1 is the first enthusiast P&S from Pentax in many years.
Pentax K-500 is the first entry level DSLR with 100% pentaprism and dual wheel control.
Pentax K-50 is making weather sealed DSLR even cheaper than before.
Ricoh GR is their first APS-C sensor compact, and with lower price than competition.
1/1.7" sensor in Q7 is a progress coming from 1/2.3" sensor in Q10.
Strange progress. It's tweaks and upgrade. Not progress.
06-14-2013, 11:16 AM   #1272
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
In fact I think the main reason We got K-5 II last year instead of K-3 is that there wasn't a suitable sensor available to Pentax.
Indeed; there is a very plausible rumour stating that the K-3 was delayed because the 24MP sensor did not perform to Pentax's satisfaction.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Strange progress. It's tweaks and upgrade. Not progress.
Patience, Ogl, patience.

I'm confident we'll receive some good news later this year.
06-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #1273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Indeed; there is a very plausible rumour stating that the K-3 was delayed because the 24MP sensor did not perform to Pentax's satisfaction.


Patience, Ogl, patience.

I'm confident we'll receive some good news later this year.
Patience is a virtue and usually I got loads of it but with all these new releases I`m getting very curious about the K-3. Still holding out on a K5IIs because I really like to see what the K-3 has to offer (esp in terms of AF).
06-14-2013, 11:26 AM   #1274
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Strange progress. It's tweaks and upgrade. Not progress.
So what is progress to you? To me progress in this case means continued improvements.
06-14-2013, 11:28 AM - 3 Likes   #1275
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Patience, Ogl, patience. I'm confident we'll receive some good news later this year.
I'm confident you are correct.

Though I like my K-01, it is readily apparent Pentax listened to the majority opinion and returned to its solid, conservative roots.

Incremental change, consistently applied over time, according to a carefully developed plan, yields astonsihing progress to the diligent and disciplined corporation. A patient, discerning customer will recognize the Alpha of consistent brand identity. We knew that Pentax for decades before
  1. they deviated into the plastic FA consumerism of the early 2000's
  2. they were plundered by Hoya
Pentax has delivered two feature-rich cameras at attractive prices and a third, innovative, creative developmental step in a novel system platform.

What on Earth is wrong with that?

We should all be shouting hosannahs of praise to the Heavens above that Ricoh is executing on a thought out plan.

Last edited by monochrome; 06-14-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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