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06-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #1291
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QuoteOriginally posted by mamethot Quote
Please elaborate on that.

Overhead for the user for the PP part or overhead in camera to save RAW? Or overhead in the camera for compression of the raw file in a jpeg?
Perhaps overhead on the part of the manufacturers: R&D to put raw capabilities into the firmware, perhaps new imaging processors to handle the increased workload, testing, support, marketing overhead, interop work with makers of raw converters, etc. Plus, as you noted, whatever was physically needed in the camera body to save more and larger image files.

I claim no expertise (or even dim understanding) in this area but putting raw capabilities in a P&S does not sound (to me) to be a trivial task.

06-20-2013, 11:07 AM   #1292
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
It took both Nikon and Pentax several years to a decade to catch up with what Canon did in 1987, and I've argued before it's because they maintained backwards compatibility with inferior technologies.
As the owner of a lot of legacy glass for both Nikon and Pentax, I, for one, am very glad that they did.
06-21-2013, 12:46 AM   #1293
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
RAW will be more special occasion because of the time commitment.
That's funny, I save a LOT of time using RAW since I never have to worry about WB settings and also can afford to be slightly sloppy with exposure settings on the K-5 (usually I have it set at -0.7 and just up the exposure in PP if it gets to dark). My relatively new MacBook with SSD imports the files so fast that I wouldn't really notice a difference if I started using JPEG.

I don't think I've used my K-5 one single time in JPEG mode, I don't think I've shot JPEGs at all since IMGP0002 on my K10D... (but I occasionally play with in-camera development).
06-21-2013, 05:22 AM   #1294
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
That's funny, I save a LOT of time using RAW since I never have to worry about WB settings and also can afford to be slightly sloppy with exposure settings on the K-5 (usually I have it set at -0.7 and just up the exposure in PP if it gets to dark). My relatively new MacBook with SSD imports the files so fast that I wouldn't really notice a difference if I started using JPEG.

I don't think I've used my K-5 one single time in JPEG mode, I don't think I've shot JPEGs at all since IMGP0002 on my K10D... (but I occasionally play with in-camera development).
The point is the tablet is rapidly replacing the laptop/desktop.

Most people who buy DSLR's don't shoot RAW and there is something of a PP backlash going on. Tablets play nice with JPEG, but camera makers have ignored where the "digital darkroom" has gone and it sis likely having a impact on sales.

06-21-2013, 06:08 AM   #1295
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The point is the tablet is rapidly replacing the laptop/desktop.
I know, and the tablet will soon do RAW as easily as Apple's iPhoto does it for noobs today. So there's no real conflict, maybe just a very temporary one while tablets get more powerful.
06-21-2013, 06:20 AM   #1296
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The point is the tablet is rapidly replacing the laptop/desktop.

I question why this is. The tablet screen is not much larger than that of the larger Smrat Phons. Even the larger laptop screens are small by comparison to a dual display desktop setup.

For me at least the more real estate I can get the better.

If and when desktops are phased out I will be surrounded by a bunch of squinting fellow photographers who somehow believe they have the very best they can get.
06-21-2013, 06:24 AM   #1297
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I know, and the tablet will soon do RAW as easily as Apple's iPhoto does it for noobs today. So there's no real conflict, maybe just a very temporary one while tablets get more powerful.
It's not certain tablets can and will do intensive RAW processing and editing. Battery cost and processor cycles create efficiency barriers. It might push sales of high storage tablets, but tablets are designed to be wireless and RAW and wi-fi are not entirely compatible.

Shoot RAW+JPEG. and have an app that helps sort between the go now/ good now JPEG photo and the process later photo would be ideal. Remember: most people don't use RAW.
06-21-2013, 06:46 AM   #1298
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It's not certain tablets can and will do intensive RAW processing and editing. Battery cost and processor cycles create efficiency barriers. It might push sales of high storage tablets, but tablets are designed to be wireless and RAW and wi-fi are not entirely compatible.
Don't worry.

While the iPad 4 still is slightly slower than the first Core 2 laptops were more than 6 years ago, mobile processors develop so fast that I'm not worried.
And 802.11ac is already in the same speed range as USB2.

06-21-2013, 11:58 AM   #1299
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
I question why this is. The tablet screen is not much larger than that of the larger Smrat Phons. Even the larger laptop screens are small by comparison to a dual display desktop setup.

For me at least the more real estate I can get the better.

If and when desktops are phased out I will be surrounded by a bunch of squinting fellow photographers who somehow believe they have the very best they can get.
Keep in mind that pixel density on the newer tablets (specifically the latest iPads) is very high and zooming is as simple as spreading two fingers.
06-22-2013, 12:47 AM   #1300
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Keep in mind that pixel density on the newer tablets (specifically the latest iPads) is very high and zooming is as simple as spreading two fingers.
True, and I really wonder why PC screen manufacturers didn't understand yet that high density screens would be useful on PC as well
Keep the same pixel density as an iPad and pakage a 24" IPS IGZO with full Adobe RGB support.
06-22-2013, 05:10 AM   #1301
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
True, and I really wonder why PC screen manufacturers didn't understand yet that high density screens would be useful on PC as well
Keep the same pixel density as an iPad and pakage a 24" IPS IGZO with full Adobe RGB support.
Apple understands that and they use high pixel density monitors on the MacBook Pro now. For larger screens, certainly 4K monitors will become more prevalent but they're just now emerging... at very high prices.
06-22-2013, 06:52 AM - 1 Like   #1302
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Apple understands that and they use high pixel density monitors on the MacBook Pro now. For larger screens, certainly 4K monitors will become more prevalent but they're just now emerging... at very high prices.
They finally did, indeed but if they didn't improve other characteristics as colorimetry that's of very little use for graphic arts.
My Macbook screen is a lot worse than a cheap 22" VGA-only Samsung screen bought 2 years before. In an Apple product, this is simply unacceptable (well, partly why Apple won't be my next laptop but I digress). sRGB really is a minimum. Not even that.

Asus has some nice screens and with nice price too. If Asus could go high rez, that'd be wonderful
06-22-2013, 07:06 AM   #1303
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Some thoughts - raw and devices

Raw?

I always shoot raw - you simply can get the best out of your pictures - think of adjusting white balance as you like, highlight recovery or high dynamic range. While post processing you have the time to decide what's the best "recipe" for every picture. But you have to know how to get it with your special raw converter and it takes some time. Whether you use in camera raw development, tablet raw development or pc/mac-app raw development, you always have to learn how to get the best out of it. This takes time. And you have to do it under the right environmental conditions.

Tablet and Raw?

It works. Last holidays I only had my iPad mini with me. Loaded the raw files via apple camera connection kit and developed with snapseed. Ever tried? I got some nice results. But I like to develop the files a lot more with a big color calibrated eizo screen (16:10, near adobe rgb color space) and a good raw converter on my mac mini.

Color accuracy with tablet?

I don't think that there is any color management system for tablets until now - neither in ios nor in android.

In camera raw development?

With the little screen and no color management? Sure, you can do with K5 or other cameras. You get the pictures developed with some parameter restrictions. As with tablets many people will be happy.

I think tablets are great for viewing pictures. Also really nice if you want to tag pictures comfortable being everywhere. Think of the (in my opinion) very nice iPad app PhotosInfoPro. With this app you even can generate xml-sidecar files and import them later into your pictures with an appropriate raw converter on a pc or mac. Today I use Capture One Pro 7.

Depending on the demands we have, we should use the fitting devices and software. The manufacturers of cameras, tablets, computers and software should always support this. I don't think that there can be a single solution for all demands.

Sorry for being a bit off topic.
06-22-2013, 07:06 AM - 1 Like   #1304
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Asus has some nice screens and with nice price too.
I have had nothing but ASUS laptops and built ASUS PC's for the past 15 years or so. It all started with my second PC. I decided it was time to move up from the used Boeing surplus hand me down that was given to me by my stepson. I did a bit of research, then went to my friendly neighborhood computer shop (remember those?) and the Zit Faced Propeller Head Kid filled a cardboard box with all the bits and pieces I needed to assemble what turned out to be a very nice desktop computer.

It cost about $800, and at the time was the fastest and nicest PC a person could have.

Since then I have built 5 or 6 machines, all for about the same amount of money, but each time as fast and as powerful as they could be. The last machine I built was a dual display CAD workstation. It cost a couple hundred bucks more because of the dual head video card and the extra monitors.

People always ask me if I can build them a computer, and when I quote a price they get all fuzzed up and whine that they can run down to the local Best Buy and get one for a couple hundred bucks. I tell them to go right ahead, and when they have problems with it, and the Zit Faced Propeller Head Kid at the Geek Squad counter can't fix it, don't come crying to me.

You get what you pay for, right?
06-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #1305
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QuoteOriginally posted by Racer X 69 Quote
I have had nothing but ASUS laptops and built ASUS PC's for the past 15 years or so. It all started with my second PC. I decided it was time to move up from the used Boeing surplus hand me down that was given to me by my stepson. I did a bit of research, then went to my friendly neighborhood computer shop (remember those?) and the Zit Faced Propeller Head Kid filled a cardboard box with all the bits and pieces I needed to assemble what turned out to be a very nice desktop computer.

It cost about $800, and at the time was the fastest and nicest PC a person could have.

Since then I have built 5 or 6 machines, all for about the same amount of money, but each time as fast and as powerful as they could be. The last machine I built was a dual display CAD workstation. It cost a couple hundred bucks more because of the dual head video card and the extra monitors.

People always ask me if I can build them a computer, and when I quote a price they get all fuzzed up and whine that they can run down to the local Best Buy and get one for a couple hundred bucks. I tell them to go right ahead, and when they have problems with it, and the Zit Faced Propeller Head Kid at the Geek Squad counter can't fix it, don't come crying to me.

You get what you pay for, right?
Indeed, Racer, completely agree.

As a laptop, I wouldn't buy Asus but that's not really Asus fault, I'm more a Thinkpad guy with 3 years on site warranty (a Dell or HP equivalent would be acceptable). Thing which isn't really Asus business.

But I'd be delighted to put dual Asus PQ screens on my Thinkpad dock though
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