[gazonk]

If in fact there is FF development going on, and if it includes work on, say, the entire technology of AF; a fast buffer; dual card slot technology; flash sync; H.264 and/or HDMI out in video; and a whole host of other in-body technology - then one might expect these improvements to populate the next high-end APSc cameras,

Not only FF development, but also 645 D II development!

[cali92rs]

Ricoh, OTOH, is a willing "master" i.e. they bought specifically Pentax Imaging Business. They wouldn't do that unless they had a plan to invest and grow it, which AFAIK is exactly what they're doing.
Because of this, I expect Pentax to perform differently; but this will take some time. So far we only saw some "hints", e.g. the launch of Pentax-Hoya products during 2012; this year IMO we should see more. But a market share growth significant enough to allow 3rd-party lens makers to support Pentax as well as Canon or Nikon, well, that will take some years.

Can it be considered a mistake to be a willing master? Pentax Imaging wasn't exactly a juggernaut in the years before the Hoya takeover.

[Kunzite]

A mistake, why?

[cali92rs]

A mistake, why?

Because Pentax Imaging was floundering. Why would it be a good thing for the same company/people to steer the ship now?

[Kunzite]

Who exactly is to blame for the pre-Hoya situation? Are they the same people, the ones steering Pentax Ricoh now? Are they operating under the same conditions?
A simple phrase can contain so many suppositions; yet I would be amazed if Ricoh didn't put their people in key positions, within Pentax Ricoh Imaging.

By "willing master" I was talking about how Ricoh actually wanted Pentax Imaging Systems (in contrast to not wanting it, but another division); and to expand in a certain business via M&A is not a mistake in itself.

[Clavius]

It's a mistake to consider Pentax' performance as being unrelated to what Hoya did to them. Was it really Pentax not being "productive", or Hoya thinking too short-term, and concentrating on cost cutting and downsizing? How could Pentax perform, when it's R&D department is reduced, all in the name of margins?

But downsizing a healthy good performing company branch doesn't make sense either. Overall, Hoya is a big player, guaranteeing quality products. It doesn't make sense that they would blindly cut in division that is performing well. Their line of actions prove that they felt like they had to do something to correct the issue. And when that didn't work, they wanted to get rid of them.

There were three large disruptions directly related to Hoya:
- when Pentax had to fight for their survival as a company (and lost, for no other reason than strong shareholder activism).
- because of the hostile takeover itself; unfortunately, this cut all the momentum they were starting to gain, with the K10D launch.
- when they were prepared to be sold (2011 was a boring year, don't you agree?)

Yes I agree, Pentax had a great deal of flogging the past years. Their own fault or not, Pentax itself alone is responsible for getting themselves out of the downward spiral. Using any of their setbacks as an excuse is weak.

[Ash]

Ok. So we imply from this that Pentax is weak and a continually weakening company that makes mediocre gear and doesn't develop innovative products. Now can we talk about the good things ahead and the possibilities in the K-3, 645D II and GXR?

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Last edited by Ash; 02-26-2013 at 04:45 AM.

[Sinister]

Is there any "new lenses 2013" Thread? I would like to speculate about a DA*24, DA*35, DA*17TS

[pinholecam]

Someone obviously switched to another brand and his bitterness (whatever the reason) keeps pulling him back to stir things here (and also in a twisted way entertaining himself immensely)
Sadly its common here as the mods don't want to take action perhaps in some dogmatic upholding of 'free speech'
(But at what cost... wait maybe its a good thing since it drives site traffic)


Having m4/3, Pentax, Canon FF, my conclusion is that there is no prefect camera.
They all have pros/cons and flaws.
They all make trade-offs
Its just a matter of how those pros/cons/tradeoffs align to the users needs.

[Ash]

Mods take action when forum rules are breached (such as the use of expletives, whether overt or covert ). It is not against the rules to continuously express a difference in opinion, no matter how annoying. It doesn't help when we abet the complaints with rebuttals. Indeed, there is no perfect camera, but brand loyals can find plenty of reasons to confirm their biases, including Pentaxians. But we can choose to focus on a product's imperfections or enjoy its strengths. The latter offers a better quality of life.

[gazonk]

Ok. So we imply from this that Pentax is weak and a continually weakening company that makes mediocre gear and doesn't develop innovative products. Now can we talk about the good things ahead and the possibilities in the K-3, 645D II and GXR?

Hear, hear! It's quite amazing how a thread about possibly very promising new products turns into a doom and gloom thread like this one.

I expect the K-3 (s) to be a more interesting upgrade over the K-5 II (s) than the Nikon D7100 is to the D7000. An already wonderful camera is going to be even better.

[Kunzite]

Ash, repeatedly posting blatantly false information with the declared intention to "prove" a competitor's product is "better" should not be allowed, IMHO. And if the mods wouldn't allow that, you'd have a pleasant surprise - in seeing Pentaxians not being so often annoyed.
Really, you are protecting the wrong people. And because of that, threads will keep turning into doom and gloom.

But downsizing a healthy good performing company branch doesn't make sense either. Overall, Hoya is a big player, guaranteeing quality products. It doesn't make sense that they would blindly cut in division that is performing well. Their line of actions prove that they felt like they had to do something to correct the issue. And when that didn't work, they wanted to get rid of them.

Assumptions, oversimplification and more assumptions.
What does "performing well" means? Was Pentax performing the same, pre- and post-takeover? Did anything change? Were Hoya by any chance attempting to recover the money spent on Pentax, especially on the division they didn't wanted? Were they asking for bigger margins?
If Hoya is guaranteeing quality products, how come the K-5 had such issues? Wait, could it be they actually don't guarantee such things?
Can one turn around a division by only cost cutting, including downsizing the R&D, in a highly competitive market?

Yes I agree, Pentax had a great deal of flogging the past years. Their own fault or not, Pentax itself alone is responsible for getting themselves out of the downward spiral. Using any of their setbacks as an excuse is weak.

What's weak is your argumentation. Pentax' only fault is how they put themselves in a position in which a major shareholder could force the acceptance of a hostile takeover. After that, there was no possibility of "getting themselves out of the downward spirals", as they weren't in control anymore.

[Ash]

I'll repeat, there is no rule against misinformation, whether blatant or unintentional. If members see any behaviour considered to be badgering or harassing another member, it should be put forward to the moderator team in the form of a report of the post in question.

Now, this forum will remain a community of Pentaxians sharing friendly discussion of topics of interest without behaviour deemed offensive or obscene. Let's keep it as such. This thread gives us the licence to think about Pentax's future in a hazy yet glowing light. So let's talk specs. APS-C K-3 with 24Mp, still 6-6.5fps with even more superior high ISO performance? MF 645D II with 60Mp, movie mode with full HD at 50fps, 3fps stills and ISO to 6400? What else?

[thibs]

I'll repeat, there is no rule against misinformation, whether blatant or unintentional. If members see any behaviour considered to be badgering or harassing another member, it should be put forward to the moderator team in the form of a report of the post in question.

It has been in the past but no action AFAIK has been taken but RH ban.
If it is not against the forum rules, it may be time to change the rules.
Or a day, News & Rumors will be populated only by trolls.

I understand the free speech point, but at a point we have to acknowledge it has limits too.
And currently, MY limits are nearly reached. This is of course strictly personal.
And yes I know can take one action which is not to read here. Really, how would it solve anything?

[Boris]

Thibs (what's up, man!), Ash, pinholecam, et al... I am thinking that all such threads are destined to decline into some counter-productive talk. Why? Because it is the rumors, baby! Rumors build expectations (I do remember the most intense hype prior to introduction of K-7, which regretfully made me buy it). The expectations are always unrealistic. The sensor will be amazing. The AF will be faster than light itself, etc. Even if Pentax introduces good new models, revolutionary or evolutionary, no matter, people will be unhappy.

Why don't we just sit tight and wait until actual introduction is made? We still have our cameras (Pentax or Ricoh or other brands, no matter) - we can go out and shoot and talk practical photography and talk about practical ways to improve ourselves with the gear that is already available.

Just my two cents.