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02-27-2008, 08:39 AM   #1
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K20D vs Silky Pix vs ACR

Well the top two images are from Silky pix, left one unprocessed, right one processed. The bottom two are from ACR, same RAW file, left unprocessed and right processed.

ACR colour is way off and sharpness levels suck!

Be warned! DO NOT USE ACR with K20D until they have a proper adjustment made.



02-27-2008, 08:44 AM   #2
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Chris,
Did you Silky Pix as in PPL or stand alone Silky Pix?

Thx
02-27-2008, 08:46 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
Chris,
Did you Silky Pix as in PPL or stand alone Silky Pix?

Thx
PPL

I normally always use ACR cause the colour wasn't so bad with the K10D, but man now it just blows. I'm going to redo all the high ISO test images with PPL now to see if there is a major difference.
02-27-2008, 10:40 AM   #4
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I've never used PPL, but doesn't it use the camera settings for Color, Saturation, contrast and sharpening as the initial settings for the raw converter?

02-27-2008, 01:17 PM   #5
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This may be (probably is) a dumb question - but I assume you're using DNG files, and that ACR doesn't recognize the K20D's PEFs yet? If you are using PEFs, is in possible that ACR will see the DNGs any differently?

I had kind of figured that I'd have to shoot DNGs for processing in Lightroom until it was updated to recognized K20D PEFs, but if the results are like that, I guess I'll stick with PPL for now and reprocess everything once Lightroom is updated.

I actually had just begun to make peace with ACR again after having flat and dull colors in Lightroom output... (generally fixed partly though minor calibration tweaking and partly by realizing that somehow it got set to export JPGs in AdobeRGB! oops!) I wonder how Bibble compares when dealing with K20D raw photos? I played with it briefly and was impressed by the quality of its output, but the UI and particularly the library management is way behind Lightroom.

One other question I've seen asked but haven't seen an answer yet - just how big are the raw files from the K20D? Are we really looking at 25-meg files? (With the understanding that currently the PEFs are a little smaller than the DNGs.)

Thanks!
02-27-2008, 02:41 PM   #6
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DNG problem or faulty K20D?

My experience has grim, though I am hoping at present it is due to a faulty K20D which I have returned for replacement. DNG files previewed well on the K20D's screen, but were hopeless when imported into ACR. From ISO 400 upwards with Custom White Balance or Tungsten Balance set and strongest noise reduction, all dark areas of the image were filled with blue coloured noise and the image had a pronounced shift towards green/yellow. Raising the colour temperature removed the blue noise, but shifted the colour cast to something even worse. The effect was much worse in ACR than Silky Pix, but still evident to some degree in both, hence my decision to return the body. In addition, whenever I used one of the Black and white filters (the infra-red effect and red filter effect) Adobe Bridge showed a thumbnail as I expected it to be for a moment, then lost all of the filter effects and changed it to a straightforward colour picture. Opening the image in ACR only gave me a conventional colour image. DNGs from my K10D have been flawless from day one, so this is worrying.

I spoke to someone at Pentax UK about it and while he was polite it was evident he didn't know one end of a K20D from the other (he didn't even know they were on sale yet), so there was no help from that end.

I am expecting a replacement as soon as new stocks are available and will be re-testing with some urgency.
02-27-2008, 02:59 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Delgado Quote
My experience has grim, though I am hoping at present it is due to a faulty K20D which I have returned for replacement. DNG files previewed well on the K20D's screen, but were hopeless when imported into ACR. From ISO 400 upwards with Custom White Balance or Tungsten Balance set and strongest noise reduction, all dark areas of the image were filled with blue coloured noise and the image had a pronounced shift towards green/yellow. Raising the colour temperature removed the blue noise, but shifted the colour cast to something even worse. The effect was much worse in ACR than Silky Pix, but still evident to some degree in both, hence my decision to return the body. In addition, whenever I used one of the Black and white filters (the infra-red effect and red filter effect) Adobe Bridge showed a thumbnail as I expected it to be for a moment, then lost all of the filter effects and changed it to a straightforward colour picture. Opening the image in ACR only gave me a conventional colour image. DNGs from my K10D have been flawless from day one, so this is worrying.

I spoke to someone at Pentax UK about it and while he was polite it was evident he didn't know one end of a K20D from the other (he didn't even know they were on sale yet), so there was no help from that end.

I am expecting a replacement as soon as new stocks are available and will be re-testing with some urgency.
No it's an ACR problem. It doesn't have the new profile yet for the K20D and wont for a while so the images will react differently. I had problems like that as well, but when you shoot under fluorescent lights don't forget about what part of the sine curve you hit. No WB will fix catching a partial sine curve from a fluorescent bulb.
02-27-2008, 03:08 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by codiac2600 Quote
No it's an ACR problem. It doesn't have the new profile yet for the K20D and wont for a while so the images will react differently. I had problems like that as well, but when you shoot under fluorescent lights don't forget about what part of the sine curve you hit. No WB will fix catching a partial sine curve from a fluorescent bulb.
You still never answered the above question, were you shooting .PEF or .DNG? If it actually can read in the new K20D .PEF files that is somewhat surprising, but I agree you should wait until they have an update to adjust for it specifically. However, if you were shooting .DNG then this isn't something Adobe will, or should, fix. It should be a standard file, that Adobe setup, so if it is off, then Pentax needs to fix it.

02-27-2008, 03:29 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by travis_cooper Quote
You still never answered the above question, were you shooting .PEF or .DNG? If it actually can read in the new K20D .PEF files that is somewhat surprising, but I agree you should wait until they have an update to adjust for it specifically. However, if you were shooting .DNG then this isn't something Adobe will, or should, fix. It should be a standard file, that Adobe setup, so if it is off, then Pentax needs to fix it.
DNG, but incorrect IMO.

ACR had problems with colours with the K10D until they updated and added a color profile for Pentax (Pentax 1.00). The DNG's come out fine in PPL, but in ACR the colours are muted and the WB gets funky with fluorescent lighting (which is an any camera problem because of the sine curve issue). Other than that it works perfectly.
02-27-2008, 03:38 PM   #10
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You don't happen to know what it looks like in LR do you? I don't really use ACR anymore. Although I guess I don't really care too much, by the time I buy the K20D they will have updated everything. They will probably be working on updates for the next set of cameras.
02-27-2008, 03:47 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by travis_cooper Quote
You don't happen to know what it looks like in LR do you? I don't really use ACR anymore. Although I guess I don't really care too much, by the time I buy the K20D they will have updated everything. They will probably be working on updates for the next set of cameras.
Unfortunately I removed Light Room as I like the work flow of Adobe Bridge and ACR better. I'll try and find my copy of lightroom and give it a try though.
02-27-2008, 05:04 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Delgado Quote
DNG files previewed well on the K20D's screen, but were hopeless when imported into ACR. From ISO 400 upwards with Custom White Balance or Tungsten Balance set and strongest noise reduction, all dark areas of the image were filled with blue coloured noise and the image had a pronounced shift towards green/yellow.
Until ACR is updated for the K20D, out-of-camera K20D DNGs give very poor WB results.

A workaround until the update is available, is to shoot PEFs, convert to DNG in Pentax Photo Browser and then import into ACR. This gives much better results, though the usual issues with reds apply.

The PEFs average about 12-16Mb but converting in PPB results in 30Mb DNG files. These can be compressed using Adobe DNG converter to slightly smaller than the original PEFs.

dave
02-28-2008, 11:43 AM   #13
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I had the same problem when using Adobe's Camera RAW. Pictures that looked good on the K20D screen were yellowish and weird when converted. I sure hope they fix this soon!

Oh, yeah.... Lightroom is just as bad. Its PPL and TIFF-files for me for some time now i guess...

Last edited by Shashinki; 02-28-2008 at 12:45 PM.
02-28-2008, 01:12 PM   #14
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Apple's Aperture 2 baseline RAW DNG conversion also looks terrible: for me, tungsten WB looks just as Delgado has described for ACR. It seems Aperture just uses some version of ACR.
02-28-2008, 03:11 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by a a i b Quote
Apple's Aperture 2 baseline RAW DNG conversion also looks terrible: for me, tungsten WB looks just as Delgado has described for ACR. It seems Aperture just uses some version of ACR.
I believe that the root of the problem is an ambiguity in the DNG spec.

There is some info on the problem in this thread: Re: K20D dng files with Adobe Camera Raw??: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

dave
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