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02-28-2008, 07:01 AM   #16
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Only my opinion:

but if I were you and you can afford to switch systems, I'd do it in a flash.

With the type of shooting you do, you do not get second chances.

If you can get 15 shots of your wife clearing each hurdle or crossing the finish line or landing in the pit and choose THE shot, you are much further ahead than choosing between a half dozen shots.

You do not have the option, unfortunately, of having the race re-run or the jump done over if your K10 fails to lock focus at all, either.

Sure- you can pre-focus on a hurdle or on the spot in the pit and get a few shots, but that's a lame alternative to getting a whole sequence in sharp focus from take-off to landing, isn't it? In fact, imagine a panoramic sequence of a half dozen shots of your wife leaving the board, launching into the air, then landing in a cloud of sand! I'd do almost anything for a sequence like that if I were you.

Your shots are more important to you than my bird and wildlife shots are to me (or someone's studio shots, or whatever, too, I should imagine). You need to use the best equipment available now, and Pentax, at the present time does not offer a competitive camera to meet your needs.

All this is not to say you can't or won't get good photos of your wife in action. Just that you would likely do better with another brand.

There IS a reason you don't see anything other than Canon and Nikon being used by the serious shooters at track-side...

02-28-2008, 07:15 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom Lusk Quote
In fact, imagine a panoramic sequence of a half dozen shots of your wife leaving the board, launching into the air, then landing in a cloud of sand! I'd do almost anything for a sequence like that if I were you.
Like, get a video camera?
02-28-2008, 07:18 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Wow, after reading this thread there are all of a sudden Canon admirers coming out of the woodwork. This on a Pentax forum...
Maybe I've been selling professional hand and power tool to long but it seems to me using the right tool for the job makes sense. Pentax is not the best tool for action photos. The k10/20D will do the job but not as well as the 40D. Just because we are on a Pentax forum doesn't mean we should close our eyes to a better solution when it is needed. Telling the guy he just needs to practice more is not being completely honest. The K10D is what it is, a great camera for the price, but not up to the 40D when it comes to action shots.
02-28-2008, 07:20 AM   #19
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The k20d is worth it for the better high iso performance which will allow for faster shutter speeds.

Also, that burst mode is more than enough for the web. not good for printing above 4x6 though,

02-28-2008, 07:22 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Like, get a video camera?
Yeah, then you can pick a frame out, blow it up and hang it on the wall, right.
02-28-2008, 07:42 AM   #21
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No video for me...

I was thinking more along the lines of this sequence:

Mute Swan in Flight (sequence): Nikon D300/D200/D100 Forum: Digital Photography Review
02-28-2008, 07:45 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by anomaly Quote
The k20d is worth it for the better high iso performance which will allow for faster shutter speeds.

Also, that burst mode is more than enough for the web. not good for printing above 4x6 though,
Early indications seem to indicate 1/2 stop advantage. that's not what I would call a great improvement.
02-28-2008, 09:19 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobrapp Quote
The real thing about sports photography is not the camera or FPS. Good greif! When I lived in the US, I shot profesional basketball with a Spotmatic. Yes, early on, I was very ordinary but developed my skills.

All of this with a "thumb wind" and manual focus lenses!

Example here:

Remember the ABA: Ron Boone

Bob
Nice pictures Bob

02-28-2008, 09:33 AM   #24
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Just a little over a year ago I came back to using Pentax cameras. In that time I have bought a K10d w/grip, used istD (for backup) Da 70, Da 50 1.4, DA 16-45, smcA* 300 f4.0, DA* 50-135, DA* 16-50 , AF 540 flash, AF 360 flash, plus a sigma 70-200 f2.8 lens and other misc. gear. I really like the look of the Pentax colors and film like look. Since I still do a lot of free lance shooting I use my camera for just about all types of photos. Sports shooting is something that I do not make most of my money at. In good day light I can get a good percentages of sharp images. Pentax af is pretty fast but as I have said before, the focus tracking is way behind the competition. I plan to wait a while to see if Pentax really does have a K1D in the mill and if it will suit my needs, if not i may have to consider the option of changing systems to be competitive with the competition. I just bought a used nikon d2h and it will do my sports shots for the mean time. I do not want to switch to another system if I can keep from it, but the d2h blows my K10 out of the water on basketball shots indoors.
02-28-2008, 09:44 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by kipsta Quote
Hiya all,

My first post here.
...
I bought my K10d in order to photograph my wifey at her Veterans Athletics Championships - she is a 100m sprinter and long jumper. In fact she came 4th in the 100m at the recent world titles in Italy (nothing to do with my question, I'm just really proud of her...)

Anyway, I have always viewed the fps rate to be my cameras most important feature due to my wifey being quite fast on the track.

I had hoped that the K20d was going to give me at least 5 fps, but now we all know thats not going to happen.

So please tell me, I will listen to you, should I hang in for the next upgrade in the hope of a fps increase, or be happy with my 3 on my k10d or shock horror switch codes?

Or maybe the K20d is worth the upgrade for a sports/action photographer - are there new features in there that I may have missed on the spec sheet that I should rate higher than just fps speed ?

Thanks in advance for your guidance,
I willl give you my honest opinion as someone with a developing interest in sports photography (photographing my son's soccer matches, in this case). I switched from Pentax to Nikon and have gotten better results and more keepers as a result. While Pentax does many things well, sports/action photography is not one of them.

If you can afford it and are willing to spend the time and energy to switch, you should go with a mid-range or better system from either Canon or Nikon. Here are the main reasons:

1. Faster, more reliable auto-focus with subjects moving towards or away from the camera. Static AF test results don't tell the whole story. Try the systems for yourself and you will find that for fast moving subjects, Canon and Nikon will do better with predictive AF using AF-C.

2. Better selection of long, fast glass. It's not just the camera, it is the lenses that are a critical component of any camera system. Fast telephotos can cost some big bucks, but if you want a long fast lens with fast AF then Canon and Nikon are your best bet.

3. Faster frames per second. I consider this a less important reason, but faster FPS does help. Of course you can get good shots with 3 FPS or 1 FPS, and of course you don't want to shoot off 10,000 frames an hour hoping to get a few keepers. You wait for the decisive moment when it all comes together in terms of the athlete's activity, your position, an unobtrusive background, etc. But when that moment comes it helps to get 5 frames from that second instead of 2 or 3. Sometimes you will find that the facial expression or the body position was just right a 1/10 of a second earlier or later. You will simply get more keepers and better pictures if you have a faster frame rate. You may find that the shot just a split-second before or after you wife lands in the long jump is the best shot of the sequence, and you might have missed that shot with a slower frame rate.

Yes this is a Pentax forum and I have no interest bashing Pentax or promoting other products. But you asked the question and what I stated above reflects my personal experience using different products for sports photography. I doubt very much that anyone who has used a Pentax system and a decent Canon or Nikon system with at least middle range bodies and fast lenses would recommend the Pentax system. But don't just take my work for it: I suggest you try it for yourself. You can rent an alternative system for a day in most areas and take it for a test drive. It might cost $100 or $150, but you can judge for yourself whether it makes a difference.
02-28-2008, 10:25 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobrapp Quote
The real thing about sports photography is not the camera or FPS. Good greif! When I lived in the US, I shot profesional basketball with a Spotmatic. Yes, early on, I was very ordinary but developed my skills.

All of this with a "thumb wind" and manual focus lenses!

Example here:

Remember the ABA: Ron Boone

Bob
Wow, old photos of Ron Boone!

Being from Salt Lake City, Utah; I really like your photos! He's a bit of a legend around here and still does some Utah Jazz announcing!

Your photos prove that with skill you can get good action shots with any camera, without skill you need a Canon or Nikon

SLC
02-28-2008, 11:26 AM   #27
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I for one (since I have little talet) appreciate a high FPS. That said, I rarely used it this last weekend while shooting the race. it just takes practice (manual focus crap lens too).



Last year at the same race, I quick fired every car. This time, I tried to do it in just one. Just takes practice (of which I still need much more of).
02-28-2008, 11:47 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by anomaly Quote
Also, that burst mode is more than enough for the web. not good for printing above 4x6 though,
Actually, I'm not sure about that. The reduced resolution is about 15001000, which should be perfectly decent at 57" and acceptable at 1015" when printed on a good printer and viewed from a normal distance.

I do hope they (perhaps in a firmware upgrade) implement the intermediate option of using 22 blocks of pixels instead of 33, for 23361552 (3.6 megapixel) images at 9fps or so.
02-28-2008, 11:58 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by BizzaBoy Quote
I can only second the statement above. I shoot a lot of indoor volleyball. The best pictures I get are usually off a K100D along with a M100/2.8 and M50/1.4 (yes, manual focus). The thing with the machinegun approach is that even with 5fps you gonna probably miss the cruical moments when you see the face of the player, the ball, and the action at the same time. Slowing things down with a manual focus lens actually makes you think before you take a shoot. There is also something else to consider. If you'd shoot with 5fps all the time, you'll have a huge number of pictures you have to wade throu (400+), just to find the 3 ones that were the decisive moments of the day.

Your scenario seems to be more outdoor with a long distance to the event. If you are more than say 20 meters away chances are you don't need to focus and can safely turn off autofocus and focus to infinity. Hence most of the infamous AF issues of the K{12}0[0]D will not be relevant. Assuming it's nice and sunny out there you'd also shoot faster than 1/250, which means it's prudent to turn off SR, which results in less shutter delay.
I very much agree with all this.
I stopped using the continuous shooting mode. You hardly see the subject while the camera shoots and if you start out of focus you cannot correct.
Go manual focus, prefocus before you start and the 3 FPS will be more than sufficient.

If you want to be sure to never miss a moment and good image quality, buy one of the new HD video cameras and a Full HD TV.

- Bert
02-28-2008, 12:33 PM   #30
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Question to you guys...

IF your wife was a world-class athlete would you be looking to produce 4x6's or 5x7's or be happy with acceptable resolution?

We are not dealing with pictures of flowers in your garden, a crow sitting on your clothesline, or your child doing high school sports. We are talking about a SERIOUS athlete here...
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