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03-03-2008, 09:54 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by PaulAndAPentax Quote
Thanks Peter for the kind words. I suspect that when and if my economic status changes, I will carry two systems. I keep trying to figure out how to rip the inside of the 30D out and install it in the K10!
I had some cash stached away and reserved exclusively for photo gear (gotta keep things separated if you don't want to see them disappear in some unessential things like food, clothes, school furnitures...) and so I jumped at the occasion when offered a 30D (new) for 499!

Now I'll carry two systems until the end of year and see 1/ what I end up using most and 2/ what those guys at Canon and Pentax have up their sleeves for 2009.

I want to settle with only a limited amount of gear and a dual system is impractical in the long run.

I have a few requirements and I will go for the one brand able to better fullfill them in 2009:

1/ High IQ (resolution, color accuracy, DR);

2/ Low light abilities (ie low noise at high ISO + AF);

3/ Good ergonomics (handling, interface customization, viewfinder);

4/ Good AF (accuracy, detectivity and speed);

5/ Price of course!

For my needs, Canon and Pentax have (or will have in 2009) more than adequate lens/flash/accessories offerings so I am not even looking at these.

In fact, I think I am tired of changing gear every 2/3 years because some shortcomings of my previous equipment have been corrected: given the quality level I see in the K20/300D/30D/.../..., I think IQ has come to a point where further improvements will make no difference in prints up to 40x60cm which is the bigger I want to print.

So differences in IQ are down to noise and DR mostly and here, again, we're coming to a point where results are excellent so.... like all the alcoholics say... one more for the road and I'll be set! ... at leats for a while... ... I hope...

03-03-2008, 12:48 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by kipsta Quote
Heres a couple of shots of wifey doing a long jump at a recent meet - I have cropped to help with the file size and then mihov reduced it for uploading.
The 3fps works okay but when she is airborne it really does miss alot of the little things.
A good point raised was the 20fps at 1.3 mp of the k20d. From your experience, are these photos usable or is the res just too low?
Thanks again,
The first and last shots don't have the subject in focus, but otherwise very nice shots. I think better focus tracking and faster FPS would have given you a few additional keepers. I would also want to use a longer focal length lens with a wider aperture, as you are not filling the frame with your subject and you have a distracting background that you want to blur as much as possible.

Just going from 3 FPS to 5 FPS gives you 40% more shots. If you could swing a Canon 40D or a Nikon D300, you would get 6 FPS, and the D300 with the extra battery grip gets you to 8 FPS. Another option is a used Nikon D2H that will give you 9 FPS in a camera that is cheaper than a new Pentax K20D (but only 4.1 MP). At 9 FPS, that is triple the speed of a K10D or K20D.

If you want to see what results you would get with a 1.3 MP sensor, try this crude test: Reduce one of your existing 10 MP photos to 13% of the original .jpg size (roughly 420 KB) and make some prints comparing the original and downsized files. The downsized files will be ok for small pictures on a Web page and possibly ok for a 4x6 print, but anything beyond that will look pretty bad. You can also try downsizing a file to 40% of original file size to simulate the 4.1 MP Nikon D2H. This test isn't completely accurate but it will give you some general idea of the differences.
03-04-2008, 12:14 AM   #63
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Thanks yet again guys/gals for great advice and nice comments about the photos.

You can probably guess from the shots that wifey hates getting sandy, which is why the long jump is pure fun for her but the 100m dash is all business....

I never thought of the D2H as an option but a quick ferret around the internet world shows it deserves serious consideration.

Here is my final plan of attack - Keep the K10d and all my associated goodies (lenses, battery grip etc) for my general purpose shooting (landscapes and portraits), buy a used second hand hopefully cheaper Nikon body (D200/300 or 2HS) and when the athletics season comes around I can hire those expensive f2.8 lenses for the weekend use and get some screaming shots.

Also means I can stay friends with all you lovely people on this forum who have helped me an immeasurable amount over this.

Hope I can return the favour someday,
Cheers, Kip.
03-04-2008, 01:05 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by kipsta Quote
Heres a couple of shots of wifey doing a long jump at a recent meet - I have cropped to help with the file size and then mihov reduced it for uploading.
The 3fps works okay but when she is airborne it really does miss alot of the little things.
A good point raised was the 20fps at 1.3 mp of the k20d. From your experience, are these photos usable or is the res just too low?
Thanks again,
Kip;
Here is an example of the 21 fps; it is about 1/3 of the way down on this blog under the title Unique Burst Mode ... Click on the picture of the surfer to see the short video. Nice, but not sure if will help with what you need.
My new K20 arrives in about 38 hours. It's my first DSLR so I'm excited, but not as excited as I would be if my wife was accomplishing what your's is. Great!!!

chasing light...


Last edited by AlanR; 03-04-2008 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Forgot link
03-04-2008, 03:12 AM   #65
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Alan,
Myself being a mad Ebay shopper (especially when it comes to golf clubs) I know the feeling of anticipation when a beautiful thing is on its way to you - I count the hours as well. Once I even personally visited the local fedex office in Australia when it was a Friday afternoon and I really wanted to take my new driver for a hit on the weekend. Sure enough it had been held up in customs as the plane bringing it over had had engine problems. Longest weekend of my life whilst waiting for that delivery on Monday morning...

Whilst I don't suggest anyone ever wish their life away, I do commiserate with you on your wait and hope it passes very quickly indeed... i have heard that that camera coming to you is very nice indeed...
03-04-2008, 01:33 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by kipsta Quote
Here is my final plan of attack - Keep the K10d and all my associated goodies (lenses, battery grip etc) for my general purpose shooting (landscapes and portraits), buy a used second hand hopefully cheaper Nikon body (D200/300 or 2HS) and when the athletics season comes around I can hire those expensive f2.8 lenses for the weekend use and get some screaming shots.
Sounds like a good plan. I would rent both Canon and Nikon at first and see what you like the best and what lenses will work the best for you. Be sure that the Nikon f2.8 lenses are "AF-S" or else the focusing speed will be much slower. Eventually you will want to buy rather than rent, as those rental fees will really add up over time. And who knows, maybe Pentax will have a fast pro camera and some long fast SDM lenses out in a year or two.

Last edited by GaryML; 03-04-2008 at 09:55 PM.
03-04-2008, 03:58 PM   #67
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okay, so the consensus has been reached, the votes are in, the jury has decided. this means that i will probably make a lot of friends with this post , but for the sake of the thread starter, i will take the risk anyway (the courage, the dedication to the comunity, and stuff. please remeber these words when you order the plate, you know, the bronze thinggie under the statue).

i have read your question carefully, and the replies here. as usual, you got the honest and un-constipated sound advice you would expect from this forum (no "stay with pentax, pentax loves you, pentax is the best" or "go away. pentax sucks, go away while you still have a chance" (ricehigh aside ), but reading all this, i noticed most people had a very good point of their own. so instead of placing my vote right away, and saying "i shot rally with my minolta srt super, my praktica mtl3, my nikon d50, my k100d, and almost all shots i missed were _my_ fault" or "i shoot a canon 1dsmk1003, custom built, and tuned for every and each event, just like the cars i shoot, and i could not get 10 shots to be worth a penny without it" (for the record, the former is true, not the later ), i tryed something else on: your shoes, that is.(only figuratively speaking, it's okay, your shoes are fine, where you left them)

the matter of the fact is you are not that canon/nikon shooter with a vest with "PRESS" in big bold letters on it on the track, you don't go home after the competition, tired, beaten up, thinking you have to send the pictures to the damn paper before you can get some damn sleep, and how photography was so much more fun when you were just...having fun (okay, that was mean and unnecesary, but you get the point ). for you, it's pure passion, nothing could mean more: it's your wife that you love, worship, and who happens to be so damn cool! it's not an athlete, you are not shooting some crazy guys running their ass off on the track for no apparent reason and than gasping for breath, becaue you need to sell some pictures, _you_ wake up in the morning aside an athlete, you share most of your time with one (not to mention the proverbial hopes and dreams). i think that's what makes the huge difference. it sets you appart, because what you can do, nobody else on that track can: when that start gun goes off, you don't see who's in the lead, or care, you don't shoot the first three, you don't shoot the one who might have an accident for the sensational, there is _one_ subject on the track for you, and you know her more than anybody else, and you almost run with her to the finish, gasping for breath as she does when it's over. i envy you, this is what can make the difference between greatness and workmanship. those guys with the vests, i have a lot of respect for them (and some of them might even have quite a lot of pasion for the particular sport, make no mistake), but none of them has what you have. you have the chance to study your subject, know it's every move, how she will look on the split second just before she jumps, and so on. you have a a long-term study on your hands, and have all that's needed to achieve something rare: you have the gear, you have the skill (and can get more with practice), and, what's more important, you have the passion. you have what it takes to care about the background, to plan a particular shot you want to get and hang on the wall, because you know how and when to get it, this race, you have the time and the knowledge, and you have the motivation. you get my point.

what i have found while shooting motorsports (mainly rally), is that i can kick anybodys ass (mine included) with a point and shoot versus a high end dslr (or whatever you want), if: i am motivated, i know what's going on better, and understand, i know the track _well_ (location) and/or i have a pilot who knows the track who can and will help me and explain. anybody can do this, few people actually do. it's not easy: light matters, hour of the day matters, weather matters. does the gear matter? of course it does. i will not say i don't see the beneffit of instant preview since moving to digital, or autofocus (never had it on film, it kind of came bundled on digital ), though i still find myself prefocusing, or even using manual focus. but what matters _most_ and makes the differnce, i outlined above. does fps matter? sorry, but here i won't be as politicaly correct: no, it does not. now let's see why: 5fps, 1/250s shutterspeed (a decent one for stopping the action, though it will easyly go to 1/1000 and still prove insufficient, for fast motorsports and long lenses). there are 250 possible shots in one second which you can take at 1/250. you take 5, or you take 3. uhmm.. still the lottery. fps matters when in the evening you send the photos to the publisher/buyer, and you need to have a lot to chose from, in focus, and at least one for each participant would be nice also. these are not keepers, i did say in focus, sharp, and well exposed, not keepers. this is workmanship. i repeat, i mean no dissrespect to the pros, they are extraordinary people with a job which is certainly not so ordinary, to say the least, but you have a lot more going for you than a machine gun: you have your heart on the racetrack, and more information and inside understanding of the sport than they probably ever will. now, if there is one second which is worth getting on film by itself, every piece of it, fps might seem very usefull (like, from lift off to landing in a jump), but is it really like that? and if it is, why not have your son/best friend/insert-option-here assist you with a proper video camera, like a panasonic 3ccd or such, which is dirt cheap these days (they will love it, and you will also).

my humble oppinion is: forget about fps, know what you shoot, and don't try to be a pro, when you can be so much more: this is not just a job for you, for them it is all it is. it's not bad or good, it's just different. so drop this ugly ducklin syndrome, go out there and try be what you really want to be: if you want to get _great_ shots, work on that, if all you want is a lot of shots, and to document the event, by all means, fps might do the trick. the best bird shooters are, as far as i could tell, people who know their birds better than the biologists which invented them (pun intended), these guys might not know what they ate for lunch, or remember if they ate at all that day, but they sure as hell know what that bird they are shooting has eaten yesterday, what it will eat today, where it will go to find the food, at what hour and what the light will be like today when this happens (event: morning lift off), i think you get my point

but the question still remains: do you need a canon 40d, nikon d2h, d300, d3, canon eos 1ds#$%^ (sorry)? i really don't know, to be honest. we would have to see your pictures and hear your actual complaints about what problems you have found with the photos you brought back home, and while shooting in the field (slight slap on the wrist for you here, you were not specific enough on this point), do try to rent or borrow one of those cameras and try them out (don't go to the actual event with a new, unknown camera, go at the horse races, or soemthing, be imaginative ).

after writing this novel of a post, i must remeber to appologise in anticipation: i might be waaaay off, and have missunderstood you completely. sorry for wasting your time if i have, hope you will still find it a fun read, at least

now for the grand finale :-P: you guys (everybody) got me so intrigued i cannot put it in words. i dare anybody with a canon 40d or similar (or better) to join me at a race (rally, even racetrack -- though i find those rather boring, they are easyer), and see what we both have at the end of the day. no rules, no constraits, no keeper ratio bullshit: how many and how good, after the initial self-censorship. everything matters: composition, colors, you name it: we are talking about the final picture, not in how many miliseconds the focus ring will revolve by 90 degrees. i used the word "dare" not because i think i will kick anybody's ass, but because i meant it: i _am_curious, as i still believe somebody might turn up with a powershot or a cmena and kick my butt (and i will never shoot again, and be a human wreck, and so on). this is not meant as a contest, but as a "scientific" experiment, i really honestly am curious. the invitation extends to pentax shooters btw, it's allways fun to have somebody to share thoughts with (i am not even talking about shooting side by side, or the same race for that matter, just sharing thoughts and critique about this type of shooting is already great)

sorry for the detour to our aussie friend; the best of luck to you, and to your super-wife
03-05-2008, 02:37 AM   #68
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Yes, it is a passionate labor of love, my emotional attachment is obviously immense. I never really thought about it but your words have made me think and smile alot. Thanks.
I would love to take you up on your 'challenge'. Wifey has her National Championships on here in Sydney over the easter long weekend.

Dont suppose you'll be anywhere near the southern hemisphere ?

The beauty of photography is that the learning curve just keeps on going, and when all those elements come together lighting, composition, timing, action for that one split second shot, it just makes you sit back with a cold beer or ten and feel pretty good about yourself.

Gary , thanks for your support for my plan, and everyone else of course. I'll upload the best keeper from the Nationals to the photos section of the forum for your perusal.

I just have this gut feeling that eventually Pentax will come out with a sports minded kxx, I just dont know which side of 2010 that will be. As such I will keep an eye out for a cheap Canon or Nikon body to fill the need until then.

Cheers,
Kip.

03-06-2008, 02:59 PM   #69
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hey kip. i would love to go to aussie land, but i doubt it will be anytime soon . if i get there, i would probably want to stick around a few years at least, to get a chance to explore that wonderfully unpopulated continent of yours

good luck, and keep us posted
03-18-2008, 11:18 AM   #70
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Wait for Casio EXILIM Pro EX-F1 and carry it as a spare camera. I believe that thing will be well fun to play around with.

60fps full resolution still pictures. Full HD videorecording at 60 fps. Up to 1200fps video in lower resolutions.



And it got shake reduction too

DPReview info on it
03-18-2008, 09:16 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
"stay with pentax, pentax loves you, pentax is the best"
You should - They do - It is...

Just having a little fun...
03-18-2008, 10:21 PM   #72
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Kip, nice shots! I think they *very* nicely capture the essence, the spirit of the moment. (:-) I'd be proud of these - as I'm sure you both are - but, of course, I'd wish I had some more frames - not the 1.3MP ones - from which I could get some really good enlargements.

Having recently attended a couple of different presentations by a couple of the local pro news photogs - and having used a $5000 Nikon pro body with pricey fast pro lens for just a couple of shots - it felt so solid, I'm *very* interested in spending some quality time with some pro gear (yes, I know, a competent photographer can learn to do very good work with even modest gear). And listening to the sound of the high-FPS cameras in action at Saturday's anti-war rally and march - quite enticing - although overkill for this hobbyist. I'm nonetheless seriously considering renting a Nikon outfit (perhaps D300 w/70-200 f2.8 VR zoom) to find out what I may be missing - get another perspective.
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