Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-13-2013, 02:18 AM   #241
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Yeh, go APS-C for portability and 645D for extreme resolution. Leave out the FF altogether.
You've put a smiley there, but that idea you have there, is not so bad at all.

What if all the recent advances in sensor technology didn't only contribute to the affordability of FF sensors, but also for MF sensors?

A 645DmkII would then - of course - still be more expensive then for a example a D800, but approaching a pricepoint where more people are likely to think: "Why would I go FF, if I can go MF for just $x,- extra?"

And if it then could use DFA's, DA's and FA's with an appropriate adapter and their appropriate crop modes, then nobody would need an FF Pentax. And Pentax would again be a step ahead of of the competition.

03-13-2013, 02:48 AM   #242
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You've put a smiley there, but that idea you have there, is not so bad at all.

What if all the recent advances in sensor technology didn't only contribute to the affordability of FF sensors, but also for MF sensors?
Yes, Sony makes the Exmor sensors in several sizes, why not larger than 24x36? 33x44 or even 36x48...

QuoteQuote:
And if it then could use DFA's, DA's and FA's with an appropriate adapter and their appropriate crop modes, then nobody would need an FF Pentax. And Pentax would again be a step ahead of of the competition.

That sounds very unlikely, since the register distance of the 645D is so much larger. Of course a mirrorless 645 camera with adapters for both 645-system and K-system lenses could in principle be done. Or some weird SLR camera which could use shorter-register lenses in LV mode by moving the sensor into the mirror box

But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.

If it has

- significantly lower price (could be achieved by having two models, one of them with a lower-resolution 33x44 sensor, the other with a higher-resolution and possibly lager sensor)
- video
- more DSLR-like form factor (it would help a lot to make the body thinner, and there's a lot of air in the back of the 645D body)

it would start to look more like "the larger FF" and appeal to a broader group of photographers.
03-13-2013, 03:28 AM   #243
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
That sounds very unlikely, since the register distance of the 645D is so much larger. Of course a mirrorless 645 camera with adapters for both 645-system and K-system lenses could in principle be done. Or some weird SLR camera which could use shorter-register lenses in LV mode by moving the sensor into the mirror box.
The latter solution that you mentioned here would also enable AF on MF lenses by movinig the sensor back and forth. But I think it would only make the 645DII even bigger then it's predecessor.

QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.
True, personally I wouldn't care either.


QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
If it has

- significantly lower price (could be achieved by having two models, one of them with a lower-resolution 33x44 sensor, the other with a higher-resolution and possibly lager sensor)
- video
- more DSLR-like form factor (it would help a lot to make the body thinner, and there's a lot of air in the back of the 645D body)

it would start to look more like "the larger FF" and appeal to a broader group of photographers.
What would be the benefit of video on MF? The thinner body could again be reached by making it mirrorless. (And mirrorboxless.)
03-13-2013, 04:18 AM   #244
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
What would be the benefit of video on MF?
Compete with FF. And stunning 4K video?

QuoteQuote:
The thinner body could again be reached by making it mirrorless. (And mirrorboxless.)
there's no need to go mirrorless before EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete, especially when there's a lot of possibilities to save space behind the sensor:




03-13-2013, 04:34 AM   #245
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,118
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
there's no need to go mirrorless before EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete, especially when there's a lot of possibilities to save space behind the sensor:


That IS a lot of nothing.
03-13-2013, 05:13 AM   #246
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,739
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
EVFs are so good that even the 645D OVF is obsolete
The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat. Also the shallower DOF from a 645 cameras would make the AF so slow it really wouldn't be funny because contrast detection doesn't work the way phase detect AF systems do.I have used the 645D for sports, and with pre-focusing it is more than up to the task, I wouldn't want to use an EVF camera for that with their shutter lag - especially with a sensor that big.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-13-2013 at 06:00 AM.
03-13-2013, 05:25 AM   #247
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat. Also the shallower DOF from a 645 cameras would make the AF so slow it really wouldn't be funny because contrast detection doesn't work the way phase detect AF systems do.I have used the 645D for sports, adn with prefocusing it is more than up to the task, I wouldn't want to use an EVF camera for that with their shutter lag - especially with a sensor that big.
I think an EVF that rivals a 645 OVF ergonomically is quite a bit into the future anyway, and by then I'm sure the heat problem will have been solved.
03-13-2013, 05:41 AM   #248
Pentaxian
jackassp's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 795
Now you are all getting side-tracked.
Currently there are 20mp and 24mp sensors available in APS-C and FF sizes. Sure Canon has some APS-H sensors, but I can't see them selling to Pentax.

Pentax are paddling upstream using bad paddles, so it looks like Sony, or Toshiba.
I hope that Pentax doesn't choose the Nikon D3200 Sensor, but does choose the D5200 / D7100 sensor, for their new APS-C camera, and I would buy it in the blink of an eye, and I hope you will too.

I also hope that Pentax AF continues to improve. 39 AF points would be really nice.

And I want it all in the K-5 body.


Last edited by Ash; 03-13-2013 at 07:18 AM.
03-13-2013, 05:51 AM   #249
Banned




Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Charleston & Pittsburgh
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,683
QuoteOriginally posted by wll Quote
in the hands of a professional, is not any camera a professional camera
I'm going to put my Hasselblad on eBay and purchase iPads for the entire neighborhood. Then teaching them to use nothing but iPads to become pro's
03-13-2013, 05:51 AM   #250
Pentaxian
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 8,739
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I think an EVF that rivals a 645 OVF ergonomically is quite a bit into the future anyway, and by then I'm sure the heat problem will have been solved.
Without a passive or active cooling mechanism, I don't think EVF's will appear in medium format cameras ever. As things are some MFDBs actually use fans for active cooling - especially for long exposures. Those MFDB are designed for studio use or astronomy - forget about using them in a dust storm or rain like you already can with the 645D.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-13-2013 at 05:59 AM.
03-13-2013, 06:23 AM   #251
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 9,228
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Agreed, but what could make sense would be to introduce both an APS-C and an "APS-H" crop mode for the coming FF camera(s), since several DA lenses seem to be "almost FF".
Well, that's software - right? So even a custom crop makes sense.
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
But I don't think K-mount compatibility is required at all to reach a broader market.
K-mount compatibility is very important, but for a medium format camera? If a new MF mount will be made, it won't be for the K-mount compatibility, IMO.

Last edited by Ash; 03-13-2013 at 07:19 AM.
03-13-2013, 06:58 AM - 1 Like   #252
Site Supporter
boriscleto's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Liverpool, NY
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,834
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
The problem with EVF's is the heat generated and a 645 sensor generates quite a bit of heat.
What's the problem with that? You just make a cooling accessory

03-13-2013, 07:08 AM   #253
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
Without a passive or active cooling mechanism, I don't think EVF's will appear in medium format cameras ever. As things are some MFDBs actually use fans for active cooling - especially for long exposures. Those MFDB are designed for studio use or astronomy - forget about using them in a dust storm or rain like you already can with the 645D.
But now you're talking about current CCD sensors and forget that a 33x44 sensor has only 68% more area than a 24x36 sensor, so it's just a question of time before they have no more heat problems than current 24x36 sensors. The same applies to a 36x48 sensor, but with 100% more area it will of course be a question of a little longer time.

(This reminds me of a discussion I had with a friend in high school about 34 years ago: I claimed that around the year 2000, we would have pocketable computers which would be used for note taking, music playing and a whole lot of other tasks (the only thing I got 100% wrong was the AI I envisioned compared to which Siri is an insulting joke ). He was absolutely sure I was wrong because it would never be possible to make cpu's that were cool enough and energy-efficient enough to fit in a pocketable computer )
03-13-2013, 07:12 AM   #254
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Blue Ridge Escarpment, North Carolina, US
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,362
QuoteOriginally posted by Medium FormatPro Quote
I'm going to put my Hasselblad on eBay and purchase iPads for the entire neighborhood. Then teaching them to use nothing but iPads to become pro's
Unfortunately that's the way that many school districts are dealing with technology(and baby sitting) today Medium FormatPro. A $10 million grant for iPads became a political hot potato in our district when every teacher who went through the grant process was promised a class set. The local public went ballistic and the grants were cut in half and the usual suspects were the only ones receiving iPads. The technology is changing so fast that Smart and Promethean Boards are already out of date and educrats are constantly asking for more technology, only to be out of date when the products are finally bid and delivered.

Last edited by lukulele; 03-13-2013 at 07:13 AM. Reason: spelling
03-13-2013, 07:15 AM   #255
Pentaxian
gazonk's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Oslo area, Norway
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,512
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Well, that's software - right? So even a custom crop makes sense.
Right. And the easiest (and most flexible for those who like to have all options available in PP) solution is simply to just crop JPEGs and let crop be just a processing default for DNG files.

But DX mode on Nikon FF cameras produce reduced size RAW files, right? I have no idea how that's implemented in the camera - if it's easy to just extract a random crop size or if it's hardware supported in order to be fast enough?

Last edited by gazonk; 03-13-2013 at 07:23 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New to DSLRs and new to Pentax K Five Welcomes and Introductions 3 02-05-2013 06:52 AM
Pentax dSLRs in more B&M stores with the new ads? Docrwm Pentax DSLR Discussion 7 11-01-2012 03:47 PM
How would you market the new Pentax dSLRs? Docrwm Pentax DSLR Discussion 40 09-26-2012 02:57 PM
Pentax DSLRS RAW + JPEG, and all DSLRs for that matter. ebooks4pentax Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 10-01-2008 01:59 PM
New To Pentax DSLRs (k100d) shutterpuppy Pentax DSLR Discussion 11 03-24-2008 06:20 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:29 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top